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[Music]

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hello

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and welcome to the show i'm martin

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wooster your host

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and we have long time researcher jen

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aldrich on the show

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this evening now i have heard jan's name

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since i started looking seriously into

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this topic

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and uh he has a stellar reputation i

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yeah pun intended uh he as a researcher

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uh we'll be discussing his work and you

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uh might want to go check out his

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website he's been digitally

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documenting ufos of the modern ufos

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since 1947

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he's been doing this work since 1995 at

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remember how computers were in 1995 i

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think

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it was dial-up only and when you heard

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that weird

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noise whatever it was and uh things

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moved

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very very slowly

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that's what i remember about back in

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those days

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uh now jan just called us um he's on the

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road he's

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he's coming home so i might be pulling

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bill in bill

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skywalker who helps out with the show

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um we're not going to be able to take

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calls tonight because shane's going to

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be on the

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uh call-in system now i've been

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touting james fox's movie

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james fox's yeah james fox's movie the

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phenomenon

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uh as it lives up to the work you'd

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expect from him

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and uh as i mentioned before

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if you are newish to the ufo field

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you really don't want to miss this you

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know there are some people have

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a few people i saw you know there's

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always people that complain about

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um things it's just the way it is i

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understand that a few people have said

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well there's nothing new in it but guess

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what there is some new things in it

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um there's for instance the first time

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that the

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uh radar um uh i

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i guess you would call them techs or

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whatever uh came forward

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uh at the reynolds forest um and

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there's a few first times uh for a lot

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of things there's some footage from the

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1978 ufo

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at ufos at the united nations

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all good stuff now i have also said

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there's different ways of buying it you

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can buy it on

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apple tv amazon prime video

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vimeo and voodoo you can also buy it on

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itunes and if you want to get the extras

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because i made the mistake i bought it

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on apple tv and i thought

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i wanted to support james even though i

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got to watch the screener so

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but i also wanted to see the um the

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extras so i bought it on

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apple tv thinking um i would be watching

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these extras and no

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you're not going to be watching them on

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apple tv the only place you're going to

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be watching the

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extras on and they're free when you buy

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the movie for like 19.99 or whatever it

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is

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two places you can buy where you get the

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extras

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and i apologize for those out there who

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have

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bought this thinking they're going to

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get the extras on other platforms and

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did not

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get it so if part of that's my fault i

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really do apologize because i did tell

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people

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i thought apple tv is where you get the

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extras it's not it's itunes

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so um next week we actually have james

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fox

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on the show he's on for the first part

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of the show

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um the first hour or so and then

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after that we have charles lear he'll be

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he's the one that does our our blogs and

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audio blogs he wrote me

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jokingly that he said following james

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fox

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uh would be like following led zeppelin

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with

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gazoo using a kazoo i thought that was

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pretty funny anyway

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but i think he'll do just fine he does a

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great job um he takes these

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uh the the topic seriously he does some

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great research

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great blogs and audio blogs and this

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week's

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uh blog is ufos flying saucers

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and the bender mystery it's about albert

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bender

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and you can find that over at podcast

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ufo.com

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martin i don't mean to interrupt but i

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think we may have jan

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calling us right now all right yeah

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bring him in he's

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yes i am how are you great

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all right so uh we'll be bringing jan in

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good we got him on uh landline he's at

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home

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and all ready to go so i want to thank

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everyone that listens to the

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show and i also want to thank everyone

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behind the scenes

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i i really appreciate your help so many

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people do help out

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and i really do appreciate that uh

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palmer always sends me

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updated ufo news clips things like that

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uh and of course our blogger and

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everyone else

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um thank you so much and we are now

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simulcast

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over on facebook and on twitch

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and youtube and of course kgr

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a radio and uh if you'd like to help out

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the show

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uh for two dollars or more a month

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all you have to do is go over to our

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website once again podcast

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podcastufo.com

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and you can see the support the show

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page over there no calls this evening

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we had to have jan colin using our

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calling platform

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but as usual we will have questions in

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chat and we may have a surprise after

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the break of an hour

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uh at the top of the hour uh may have

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someone else

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joining us for a few minutes so uh that

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is it and without further ado i'd like

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can you hear me jen yeah yeah it's good

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to be there

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yeah jan i have uh heard your name

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for a long time um you know i've been

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doing the show now for

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it's coming up in just a couple weeks

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it's going to be nine years now

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i never thought it would last this long

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and i'm still enjoying it still learning

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and uh i haven't heard your name

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you know i've talked a lot with chris

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lambright and other people

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dave marler of course and have heard

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your name as uh

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just a real stellar researcher

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and i'm honored to have you on the show

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nearly 60 years well probably over 60

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years now

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oh my goodness well how did you get

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started all the way back then what what

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got you involved in the uh christmas uh

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christmas vacation during uh

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during uh junior high

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and there was a snowstorm

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which is uh it's unusual to have

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lightning during a snowstorm but we did

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the house got hit i was making

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cinnamon toast in the oven

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and opened the oven and there's a

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small ball of light about as big as a

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quarter

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uh resting over the uh

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over the grate it wasn't touching the

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grape but it was just

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over it and as i opened the door it

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started to roll out

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and it fell and then it exploded just

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like a cherry bomb going off

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yeah and i fell over backwards because

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it was such a shock

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and uh when my father came home who was

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a chemist i asked him what was going on

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and he

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said i don't know that's what the

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that's exactly what i did and i i

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settled on the idea that it was ball

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lightning

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and was very interesting because i

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looked in the encyclopedia britannica

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and it said

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scientists doubt that this exists so

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after that i

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uh i everything i could find on ball

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lightning in the library and elsewhere i

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i looked at

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and after that after a while i got

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involved in ufos because it seemed like

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unusual uh

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aerial phenomena so i was i got

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interested in that when i read rupelt's

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book uh

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the report on unidentified flying

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objects

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by the uh head of project blue book from

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approximately 51-53

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right when did he write that book we

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just did a blog about that and i have

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the book here on my shelf the original

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wait wasn't it wow yeah i have the

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original book i'm happy to say

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and uh that i've told people over the

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years that is a really good book

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yeah that has i mean some of his

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information is third and fourth hand

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however

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some of it is even though it's third and

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fourth hand in

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in cases it's the only information we've

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got on certain periods

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yeah that that happen so it's uh

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it it's it's an important book to read

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and everybody should read it if they're

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going to uh

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uh be interested in this subject it

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gives you a

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a good idea about what happened during

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short period about two and a half years

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the investigation was more open

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so not saying it was completely open and

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there's all kinds of uh things we've

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found since then

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for for example i have uh copies of

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rupelt's papers

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about four or five boxes of

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material notes he kept

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and uh he kept summaries of uh

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ufo cases that he got from his uh

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one of his uh subordinates while

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after he left wright patterson after he

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left the air force

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uh so that that's an interesting thing

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we've got

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uh uh

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so that has that has historical

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uh significance because in writing the

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book he

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he put his notes on index cards there's

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about the

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300 index cards that he's got a lot of

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it he didn't use in the books he cut it

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down

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and uh his first draft i have that

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so uh cut

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certain things out of there that are

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interesting and

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there are certain things that he got

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wrong

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i mean he thinks that uh he thought up

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battelle he was the one that suggested

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that

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some kind of computerized study should

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be done and battelle had already been

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contracted to that before he was ever

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in uh in the ufo business

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that had already been done so that

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that's

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in the book there and also in some of

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00:12:12,230 --> 00:12:08,880
his writings

286
00:12:14,470 --> 00:12:12,240
but that was not correct

287
00:12:16,550 --> 00:12:14,480
air force intelligence documents

288
00:12:18,550 --> 00:12:16,560
indicate that

289
00:12:19,590 --> 00:12:18,560
that was already programmed in before he

290
00:12:25,110 --> 00:12:19,600
ever became

291
00:12:27,829 --> 00:12:25,120
part of the ufo investigations

292
00:12:29,350 --> 00:12:27,839
um now what do you think about his

293
00:12:31,509 --> 00:12:29,360
there's a little bit of controversy in

294
00:12:33,990 --> 00:12:31,519
his changing opinion why he

295
00:12:34,949 --> 00:12:34,000
he changed his opinion on the topic of

296
00:12:38,790 --> 00:12:34,959
what a ufo

297
00:12:41,829 --> 00:12:38,800
is and had to do with the satellites um

298
00:12:43,670 --> 00:12:41,839
you know that uh i believe or something

299
00:12:46,629 --> 00:12:43,680
do you know what i'm talking about

300
00:12:47,190 --> 00:12:46,639
yes he he wrote an a different uh he

301
00:12:50,710 --> 00:12:47,200
wrote

302
00:12:53,350 --> 00:12:50,720
three additional chapters to his book

303
00:12:54,389 --> 00:12:53,360
right that's right uh one was pretty

304
00:12:56,790 --> 00:12:54,399
straight it

305
00:12:58,150 --> 00:12:56,800
it just gave more of the history up to

306
00:13:00,069 --> 00:12:58,160
the time that

307
00:13:01,590 --> 00:13:00,079
of the added chapters and the other two

308
00:13:07,829 --> 00:13:01,600
were

309
00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:07,839
uh rather negative uh

310
00:13:11,030 --> 00:13:10,560
it's hard to tell exactly where he was

311
00:13:17,030 --> 00:13:11,040
on

312
00:13:18,550 --> 00:13:17,040
he was you know i'm really puzzled i

313
00:13:19,990 --> 00:13:18,560
don't know what they are and the next

314
00:13:26,069 --> 00:13:20,000
day he'd be disgusted

315
00:13:30,069 --> 00:13:28,230
i think he thought that ufos were going

316
00:13:33,509 --> 00:13:30,079
to be a

317
00:13:36,949 --> 00:13:33,519
a key to a long

318
00:13:38,470 --> 00:13:36,959
active duty career and it didn't turn

319
00:13:41,590 --> 00:13:38,480
out that way uh he

320
00:13:43,509 --> 00:13:41,600
uh he was just in for the korean war

321
00:13:45,590 --> 00:13:43,519
they brought in a lot of uh

322
00:13:49,030 --> 00:13:45,600
reservists for the korean war and he was

323
00:13:55,269 --> 00:13:52,069
when the war started to

324
00:14:03,350 --> 00:13:59,990
uh he was he was you know returned to

325
00:14:07,269 --> 00:14:03,360
civilian status

326
00:14:10,470 --> 00:14:07,279
hmm right and uh uh

327
00:14:13,910 --> 00:14:10,480
when you when he when he uh when he left

328
00:14:20,230 --> 00:14:17,430
he gave some rather negative comments

329
00:14:23,829 --> 00:14:20,240
about ufos

330
00:14:25,910 --> 00:14:23,839
um yes then he wrote a uh

331
00:14:27,030 --> 00:14:25,920
thing for true magazine which was a

332
00:14:32,389 --> 00:14:27,040
really popular

333
00:14:36,790 --> 00:14:34,790
and the editor of true magazine told

334
00:14:39,829 --> 00:14:36,800
them

335
00:14:44,230 --> 00:14:39,839
uh if you don't if you don't

336
00:14:46,069 --> 00:14:44,240
write this in a an objective manner

337
00:14:47,350 --> 00:14:46,079
you know it won't be accepted by the

338
00:14:50,470 --> 00:14:47,360
public

339
00:14:54,790 --> 00:14:50,480
so he was pretty uh

340
00:14:57,670 --> 00:14:54,800
he was on the fence in that article

341
00:14:59,110 --> 00:14:57,680
and uh he he got two thousand dollars

342
00:15:01,509 --> 00:14:59,120
for the article which in

343
00:15:03,829 --> 00:15:01,519
in the 1950s that is a lot of money that

344
00:15:05,910 --> 00:15:03,839
was a down payment on a house

345
00:15:10,829 --> 00:15:05,920
absolutely so he decided to write the

346
00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:14,069
uh sort of objective

347
00:15:23,509 --> 00:15:17,760
thing but i i always thought that he was

348
00:15:31,110 --> 00:15:28,389
he was he wasn't objective i don't think

349
00:15:31,829 --> 00:15:31,120
and he pretty much thought the ufo's

350
00:15:36,949 --> 00:15:31,839
works

351
00:15:42,150 --> 00:15:40,710
no doubt he the air force may have

352
00:15:44,949 --> 00:15:42,160
brought some

353
00:15:48,949 --> 00:15:44,959
pressure on him but i think he was

354
00:15:50,870 --> 00:15:48,959
immutable to having the chapter changed

355
00:15:52,550 --> 00:15:50,880
even though he had given an interview in

356
00:15:54,530 --> 00:15:52,560
57 he had

357
00:15:56,389 --> 00:15:54,540
said that

358
00:15:59,189 --> 00:15:56,399
[Music]

359
00:16:01,189 --> 00:15:59,199
he thought that with the electromagnetic

360
00:16:04,470 --> 00:16:01,199
effects demonstrated in the

361
00:16:10,710 --> 00:16:04,480
southwest united states that

362
00:16:17,590 --> 00:16:14,230
the investigation should be ramped up

363
00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:17,600
but then shortly after that he added his

364
00:16:24,790 --> 00:16:21,120
uh more or less debunking chapters

365
00:16:26,629 --> 00:16:24,800
um the the the people at uh civilian

366
00:16:28,629 --> 00:16:26,639
saucer intelligence in new york

367
00:16:31,509 --> 00:16:28,639
more or less said well this is his

368
00:16:35,030 --> 00:16:31,519
attitude anyways

369
00:16:36,389 --> 00:16:35,040
you know because he had spoken with them

370
00:16:38,230 --> 00:16:36,399
and they

371
00:16:39,910 --> 00:16:38,240
you know they were not they were not

372
00:16:44,230 --> 00:16:39,920
impressed with his so-called

373
00:16:47,269 --> 00:16:44,240
objectivity right he died very young

374
00:16:48,230 --> 00:16:47,279
like 37 or something he had a type a

375
00:16:51,269 --> 00:16:48,240
personality

376
00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:51,279
and we talked to uh one of the uh

377
00:16:54,870 --> 00:16:53,360
lieutenants that was that worked for him

378
00:16:57,350 --> 00:16:54,880
and uh

379
00:16:59,670 --> 00:16:57,360
and we told him you know he he was

380
00:17:01,509 --> 00:16:59,680
unaware that rupault had died and i

381
00:17:03,990 --> 00:17:01,519
we told him that he said i'm not

382
00:17:05,909 --> 00:17:04,000
surprised he's a type a personality he

383
00:17:11,350 --> 00:17:05,919
could never

384
00:17:14,470 --> 00:17:13,909
he said you know he could almost see it

385
00:17:19,429 --> 00:17:14,480
he was

386
00:17:25,029 --> 00:17:19,439
young

387
00:17:29,669 --> 00:17:27,669
some heart condition that you brought to

388
00:17:33,350 --> 00:17:29,679
brought that on but

389
00:17:34,150 --> 00:17:33,360
yeah yeah so we mentioned we mentioned

390
00:17:36,470 --> 00:17:34,160
his book

391
00:17:37,510 --> 00:17:36,480
and just while we're on the topic of

392
00:17:40,630 --> 00:17:37,520
books

393
00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:40,640
um do you think um if you had to follow

394
00:17:43,590 --> 00:17:42,240
that book because you know i have a lot

395
00:17:45,590 --> 00:17:43,600
of people that are

396
00:17:46,870 --> 00:17:45,600
um listening to the show i get a number

397
00:17:50,390 --> 00:17:46,880
of emails each week

398
00:17:52,070 --> 00:17:50,400
people are new to the topic and uh a lot

399
00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:52,080
of people are looking for

400
00:17:55,350 --> 00:17:54,480
hey i mean i just got an email uh two

401
00:17:57,750 --> 00:17:55,360
days ago

402
00:17:58,950 --> 00:17:57,760
someone said what is the go-to book you

403
00:18:00,950 --> 00:17:58,960
know what are books

404
00:18:02,950 --> 00:18:00,960
for me to learn do you have any other

405
00:18:07,430 --> 00:18:02,960
suggestions besides that book

406
00:18:14,230 --> 00:18:11,190
ufos in government by michael swords and

407
00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:14,240
robert powell oh yes

408
00:18:20,549 --> 00:18:17,760
oh yes yeah well that's a good one right

409
00:18:21,750 --> 00:18:20,559
that's uh that's got uh that was five

410
00:18:25,270 --> 00:18:21,760
years in the uh

411
00:18:28,070 --> 00:18:25,280
writing and has uh

412
00:18:28,630 --> 00:18:28,080
uh a lot of official governments it's

413
00:18:36,630 --> 00:18:28,640
about

414
00:18:41,669 --> 00:18:39,350
there's a lot of mythology in ufos so

415
00:18:45,510 --> 00:18:41,679
you won't find

416
00:18:47,750 --> 00:18:45,520
many of these uh current things like men

417
00:18:49,830 --> 00:18:47,760
in black and all this other

418
00:18:51,110 --> 00:18:49,840
balderall that's going on we actually

419
00:18:54,830 --> 00:18:51,120
base this on

420
00:18:56,540 --> 00:18:54,840
what we could actually prove

421
00:18:57,669 --> 00:18:56,550
or

422
00:18:59,340 --> 00:18:57,679
[Music]

423
00:19:00,710 --> 00:18:59,350
reference

424
00:19:05,430 --> 00:19:00,720
[Music]

425
00:19:08,470 --> 00:19:05,440
is rather carefully done even so

426
00:19:11,510 --> 00:19:10,630
new information becomes available as

427
00:19:16,230 --> 00:19:11,520
soon as it's

428
00:19:19,510 --> 00:19:16,240
it's down on paper and in some cases we

429
00:19:22,390 --> 00:19:19,520
did make a few errors but uh

430
00:19:25,270 --> 00:19:22,400
as general it's it's uh head and

431
00:19:27,110 --> 00:19:25,280
shoulders above most books

432
00:19:28,710 --> 00:19:27,120
excellent what's that title to that book

433
00:19:31,590 --> 00:19:28,720
one more time i'm going to put it

434
00:19:34,150 --> 00:19:31,600
um in the chat ufos and government and

435
00:19:38,310 --> 00:19:34,160
it's by dr michael swords and

436
00:19:42,150 --> 00:19:38,320
by robert powell

437
00:19:44,310 --> 00:19:42,160
but uh we have a section about spanish

438
00:19:47,190 --> 00:19:44,320
the spanish government we have a section

439
00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:47,200
about the australian government

440
00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:50,000
the french government a little bit about

441
00:19:54,230 --> 00:19:51,200
brazil

442
00:19:58,070 --> 00:19:54,240
very little but

443
00:20:02,710 --> 00:19:58,080
and and one or two others that

444
00:20:07,270 --> 00:20:06,230
and foreign nationals the ones that are

445
00:20:09,830 --> 00:20:07,280
familiar with

446
00:20:13,830 --> 00:20:09,840
their governments were the ones that

447
00:20:18,390 --> 00:20:16,310
wow i have a question for you earlier

448
00:20:21,510 --> 00:20:18,400
just a few minutes ago you mentioned

449
00:20:24,789 --> 00:20:21,520
that you had some of uh rupaul's um

450
00:20:25,190 --> 00:20:24,799
his works and even a draft of his book

451
00:20:28,470 --> 00:20:25,200
and

452
00:20:31,750 --> 00:20:28,480
things like that where do you find

453
00:20:34,950 --> 00:20:31,760
things like this is this uh is this the

454
00:20:40,070 --> 00:20:34,960
kufos um archive

455
00:20:41,270 --> 00:20:40,080
um well dr swords bought

456
00:20:44,710 --> 00:20:41,280
[Music]

457
00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:44,720
the root belt papers ah somebody else

458
00:20:49,990 --> 00:20:46,799
bought them before that but he got the

459
00:20:52,549 --> 00:20:50,000
root belt paper so i was able to get a

460
00:20:56,070 --> 00:20:52,559
copy of them

461
00:21:00,390 --> 00:20:56,080
yeah i've for

462
00:21:05,669 --> 00:21:03,110
ufo material and that involves

463
00:21:07,669 --> 00:21:05,679
[Music]

464
00:21:09,270 --> 00:21:07,679
a number of collections of people who

465
00:21:14,830 --> 00:21:09,280
have passed away

466
00:21:21,110 --> 00:21:15,990
uh

467
00:21:29,990 --> 00:21:24,630
some some other people from

468
00:21:32,710 --> 00:21:30,000
connecticut and uh

469
00:21:34,230 --> 00:21:32,720
i i've gone to people's houses when they

470
00:21:36,630 --> 00:21:34,240
do when they've decided they want to

471
00:21:39,669 --> 00:21:36,640
throw ufos to the side and

472
00:21:43,830 --> 00:21:39,679
picked up their uh files

473
00:21:46,149 --> 00:21:43,840
so uh andy roberts from great britain i

474
00:21:49,430 --> 00:21:46,159
bought his

475
00:21:51,909 --> 00:21:49,440
his most most of his ufo files except

476
00:21:55,190 --> 00:21:51,919
for some of the foo fighters

477
00:21:57,110 --> 00:21:55,200
um i got half of the foo fighters and

478
00:21:59,270 --> 00:21:57,120
barry greenwood got the other half so we

479
00:22:02,549 --> 00:21:59,280
were able to put that together in one

480
00:22:06,789 --> 00:22:04,390
so that that's what i've been doing for

481
00:22:10,390 --> 00:22:06,799
for years i've been

482
00:22:12,149 --> 00:22:10,400
also going around to archives and things

483
00:22:13,990 --> 00:22:12,159
and researching this i've been to the

484
00:22:17,909 --> 00:22:14,000
national archives

485
00:22:20,710 --> 00:22:17,919
many times i've been to the air force

486
00:22:21,750 --> 00:22:20,720
historical research agency i've been to

487
00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:21,760
the naval war

488
00:22:32,390 --> 00:22:28,870
and uh about

489
00:22:37,510 --> 00:22:32,400
almost 100 state

490
00:22:41,990 --> 00:22:37,520
and state libraries and university

491
00:22:46,470 --> 00:22:42,000
libraries so this is a a real

492
00:22:48,390 --> 00:22:46,480
um extensive data gathering

493
00:22:49,909 --> 00:22:48,400
thing which is not finished it's never

494
00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:49,919
finished

495
00:22:57,830 --> 00:22:54,799
wow wow that's that's really something

496
00:22:58,630 --> 00:22:57,840
yeah now you mentioned uh willibert uh i

497
00:23:01,750 --> 00:22:58,640
think his

498
00:23:03,590 --> 00:23:01,760
real name was wilbert smith no is that

499
00:23:05,990 --> 00:23:03,600
who you mentioned wilbur i mentioned

500
00:23:07,029 --> 00:23:06,000
willie smith oh it's a different one

501
00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:07,039
okay

502
00:23:13,270 --> 00:23:10,080
at a michigan university i see

503
00:23:16,789 --> 00:23:13,280
worked with heinek during

504
00:23:19,190 --> 00:23:16,799
uh towards the end of heinek's life

505
00:23:20,870 --> 00:23:19,200
and they put together a thing called the

506
00:23:24,070 --> 00:23:20,880
unicat

507
00:23:27,510 --> 00:23:24,080
which was the uh supposedly

508
00:23:31,110 --> 00:23:27,520
the best cases in ufology

509
00:23:34,230 --> 00:23:31,120
when uh heinek left chicago

510
00:23:37,590 --> 00:23:34,240
uh he uh and he left uh

511
00:23:40,149 --> 00:23:37,600
center for ufo studies he took

512
00:23:42,390 --> 00:23:40,159
about a thousand cases with them with

513
00:23:46,230 --> 00:23:42,400
him

514
00:23:49,510 --> 00:23:46,240
and he and willie smith uh computerized

515
00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:49,520
these in what was called the unicat

516
00:23:57,669 --> 00:23:54,320
and so i have most of the

517
00:23:58,070 --> 00:23:57,679
uh documents that i have an output of

518
00:24:01,830 --> 00:23:58,080
the

519
00:24:06,710 --> 00:24:01,840
willie smith's

520
00:24:09,909 --> 00:24:06,720
most of his files which include

521
00:24:13,110 --> 00:24:09,919
a lot of those uh cases that

522
00:24:17,269 --> 00:24:13,120
heinrich brought with him or cases that

523
00:24:19,350 --> 00:24:17,279
willie smith had gathered because he was

524
00:24:21,669 --> 00:24:19,360
he was born in uruguay so he had a lot

525
00:24:24,789 --> 00:24:21,679
of south american contacts and

526
00:24:28,789 --> 00:24:24,799
european contacts and so this

527
00:24:32,310 --> 00:24:28,799
uh extensive uh uh

528
00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:32,320
file of of material that

529
00:24:36,070 --> 00:24:35,760
we're trying to uh get this all scanned

530
00:24:39,190 --> 00:24:36,080
in

531
00:24:42,549 --> 00:24:41,190
now i have a picture of you up on it's

532
00:24:45,510 --> 00:24:42,559
actually up on youtube

533
00:24:47,510 --> 00:24:45,520
and the other platforms that i have uh

534
00:24:48,070 --> 00:24:47,520
is that your library that you're seated

535
00:24:51,990 --> 00:24:48,080
in

536
00:24:55,110 --> 00:24:52,000
no that's uh that's uh

537
00:24:57,269 --> 00:24:55,120
dr michael swords's uh basement where he

538
00:25:01,190 --> 00:24:57,279
has all his

539
00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:01,200
books and files and wow

540
00:25:09,269 --> 00:25:08,230
a lot of work um you know it does not

541
00:25:11,750 --> 00:25:09,279
look like that

542
00:25:13,750 --> 00:25:11,760
mine looks more like giant piles of

543
00:25:16,950 --> 00:25:13,760
things and i

544
00:25:17,669 --> 00:25:16,960
about five rooms in my house with stuff

545
00:25:21,190 --> 00:25:17,679
and i've got

546
00:25:24,549 --> 00:25:21,200
a huge storage

547
00:25:25,669 --> 00:25:24,559
locker full of stuff and we're slowly

548
00:25:29,190 --> 00:25:25,679
trying to get this

549
00:25:33,269 --> 00:25:29,200
in scanned in so

550
00:25:37,590 --> 00:25:33,279
what i what we plan to do is

551
00:25:43,909 --> 00:25:37,600
uh a

552
00:25:52,630 --> 00:25:47,830
digitized so that

553
00:25:57,430 --> 00:25:52,640
you can carry around a

554
00:26:00,549 --> 00:25:57,440
thousands of cases on a on a thumb drive

555
00:26:01,909 --> 00:26:00,559
wow wow that's a that's a work of

556
00:26:05,510 --> 00:26:01,919
passion has to be

557
00:26:06,789 --> 00:26:05,520
to to to do this right it is and we have

558
00:26:10,549 --> 00:26:06,799
uh

559
00:26:11,830 --> 00:26:10,559
so far we have this is an open secret so

560
00:26:14,070 --> 00:26:11,840
there's nothing i'm not telling you

561
00:26:16,870 --> 00:26:14,080
anything that

562
00:26:17,590 --> 00:26:16,880
a lot of people don't uh may not be

563
00:26:20,230 --> 00:26:17,600
aware of

564
00:26:22,830 --> 00:26:20,240
but there are enough people that know

565
00:26:26,950 --> 00:26:22,840
what's going on

566
00:26:33,110 --> 00:26:26,960
um we've done the kufos files from

567
00:26:40,789 --> 00:26:37,350
from parts of 67 up to 1970

568
00:26:44,149 --> 00:26:40,799
so there's quite a bit of this has

569
00:26:46,789 --> 00:26:44,159
already been computerized and digitized

570
00:26:47,430 --> 00:26:46,799
plus i've been doing my own files and dr

571
00:26:51,669 --> 00:26:47,440
smith

572
00:26:56,230 --> 00:26:51,679
and andy roberts from england

573
00:26:59,190 --> 00:26:56,240
and uh about uh

574
00:27:02,230 --> 00:26:59,200
two dozen more people that have helped

575
00:27:05,190 --> 00:27:02,240
my research or

576
00:27:06,870 --> 00:27:05,200
sent me material or that i've collected

577
00:27:11,029 --> 00:27:06,880
their

578
00:27:14,390 --> 00:27:11,039
uh files and uh

579
00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:14,400
so this is uh

580
00:27:18,389 --> 00:27:16,320
i've done this with barry greenwood and

581
00:27:20,389 --> 00:27:18,399
he's done most of the work on the kufos

582
00:27:21,990 --> 00:27:20,399
files he is the

583
00:27:26,230 --> 00:27:22,000
he's the one that's done most of the

584
00:27:32,630 --> 00:27:29,269
well now you're go ahead

585
00:27:38,789 --> 00:27:35,669
next year the covert virus just

586
00:27:39,909 --> 00:27:38,799
completely uh destroyed any any work

587
00:27:42,070 --> 00:27:39,919
this year

588
00:27:44,710 --> 00:27:42,080
i'm working i'm working on my own files

589
00:27:48,070 --> 00:27:44,720
that way but i also brought

590
00:27:51,269 --> 00:27:48,080
and so did barry we each brought

591
00:27:56,389 --> 00:27:51,279
three large boxes of of

592
00:27:59,029 --> 00:27:56,399
case files home from chicago

593
00:28:01,430 --> 00:27:59,039
and that's one of the things we're

594
00:28:04,230 --> 00:28:01,440
working on right now

595
00:28:06,870 --> 00:28:04,240
and these were things that were unsorted

596
00:28:09,590 --> 00:28:06,880
or in most cases

597
00:28:11,190 --> 00:28:09,600
had been put aside when the national

598
00:28:12,310 --> 00:28:11,200
investigation committee on aerial

599
00:28:15,590 --> 00:28:12,320
phenomena when it

600
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,630
when keough and

601
00:28:24,470 --> 00:28:22,710
gordon lor left the organization uh

602
00:28:28,070 --> 00:28:24,480
so some of this hasn't been looked at

603
00:28:32,230 --> 00:28:30,549
wow and when you're when you're sorting

604
00:28:35,029 --> 00:28:32,240
through these type of things

605
00:28:36,149 --> 00:28:35,039
are you often surprised at things you

606
00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:36,159
know that have not

607
00:28:39,990 --> 00:28:38,080
been exposed before or you know is there

608
00:28:43,990 --> 00:28:40,000
new information

609
00:28:47,909 --> 00:28:44,000
yes yes so the minor case in

610
00:28:54,549 --> 00:28:51,110
uh this was a critical case and

611
00:28:59,269 --> 00:28:57,190
had they known this about the time of

612
00:29:02,870 --> 00:28:59,279
the condon

613
00:29:04,549 --> 00:29:02,880
committee had this case been exposed to

614
00:29:07,830 --> 00:29:04,559
the public i think

615
00:29:09,350 --> 00:29:07,840
uh condon might have been

616
00:29:13,909 --> 00:29:09,360
there might have been a different

617
00:29:18,149 --> 00:29:15,830
as they were as the continent committee

618
00:29:20,900 --> 00:29:18,159
was writing their final report this

619
00:29:23,510 --> 00:29:20,910
this case

620
00:29:28,710 --> 00:29:23,520
[Music]

621
00:29:32,310 --> 00:29:28,720
happened um b-52 is approaching

622
00:29:35,909 --> 00:29:32,320
minot air force base it was a

623
00:29:37,110 --> 00:29:35,919
a nuclear-capable aircraft they did not

624
00:29:39,990 --> 00:29:37,120
have any

625
00:29:41,990 --> 00:29:40,000
nukes on it but it was a czech aircraft

626
00:29:44,470 --> 00:29:42,000
they had gone off alert

627
00:29:45,430 --> 00:29:44,480
and so after that they have to fly it

628
00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:45,440
for about

629
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,789
they're coming into minot

630
00:29:56,389 --> 00:29:54,630
people on the ground had already

631
00:30:00,549 --> 00:29:56,399
reported

632
00:30:02,149 --> 00:30:00,559
the uh various ground personnel had

633
00:30:05,590 --> 00:30:02,159
already reported

634
00:30:09,990 --> 00:30:05,600
ufos over minot

635
00:30:13,750 --> 00:30:10,000
and as they approached it

636
00:30:21,430 --> 00:30:17,669
the aircraft was followed by

637
00:30:24,230 --> 00:30:21,440
a ufo now

638
00:30:26,070 --> 00:30:24,240
the people in the aircraft could not see

639
00:30:28,470 --> 00:30:26,080
that because it was behind them but they

640
00:30:30,310 --> 00:30:28,480
could see it on radar

641
00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:30,320
and once that happened they started

642
00:30:34,710 --> 00:30:31,679
taking

643
00:30:38,149 --> 00:30:34,720
photograph radar photographs

644
00:30:41,190 --> 00:30:38,159
photographs of the radar uh

645
00:30:45,510 --> 00:30:41,200
so it was it was recorded

646
00:30:47,590 --> 00:30:45,520
now this is a project blue book but

647
00:30:49,669 --> 00:30:47,600
content committee did not consider this

648
00:30:51,590 --> 00:30:49,679
case it was never brought to their

649
00:30:56,470 --> 00:30:51,600
attention

650
00:31:00,070 --> 00:30:56,480
um uh

651
00:31:01,990 --> 00:31:00,080
as the as the aircraft uh

652
00:31:04,149 --> 00:31:02,000
well they had to wave off and come back

653
00:31:07,590 --> 00:31:04,159
around as they came back around

654
00:31:14,070 --> 00:31:07,600
the ufo paced them where they could see

655
00:31:21,430 --> 00:31:18,710
red ball with a

656
00:31:23,269 --> 00:31:21,440
going out from there is like a a tunnel

657
00:31:26,389 --> 00:31:23,279
or something

658
00:31:29,830 --> 00:31:26,399
and then uh some kind of a

659
00:31:32,389 --> 00:31:29,840
uh attached was something that looked

660
00:31:37,269 --> 00:31:32,399
like an axe head but

661
00:31:42,149 --> 00:31:37,279
not an accident a manic head

662
00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:42,159
and apparently that was

663
00:31:49,909 --> 00:31:45,600
that was the front of the object

664
00:31:52,149 --> 00:31:49,919
while uh while it was pacing them they

665
00:32:01,909 --> 00:31:52,159
lost

666
00:32:04,950 --> 00:32:01,919
this is nuclear wow capable aircraft

667
00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:04,960
everything is you have double of

668
00:32:07,830 --> 00:32:05,840
everything

669
00:32:09,990 --> 00:32:07,840
you got two radios and you've got

670
00:32:13,029 --> 00:32:10,000
procedures you follow if you lose

671
00:32:16,470 --> 00:32:14,549
switching to different radios and

672
00:32:17,750 --> 00:32:16,480
switching to different frequencies did

673
00:32:22,470 --> 00:32:17,760
nothing

674
00:32:26,950 --> 00:32:22,480
wow this thing went ahead and uh

675
00:32:30,789 --> 00:32:26,960
departed from from them

676
00:32:34,870 --> 00:32:30,799
and uh they uh

677
00:32:39,590 --> 00:32:37,830
it left them and then when they uh when

678
00:32:42,630 --> 00:32:39,600
they landed they were told uh

679
00:32:46,149 --> 00:32:42,640
send the senior man to

680
00:32:49,029 --> 00:32:46,159
to the operations center

681
00:32:54,950 --> 00:32:49,039
for questioning and that's what they did

682
00:32:59,190 --> 00:32:57,350
what these boxes i told you about there

683
00:33:01,269 --> 00:32:59,200
was

684
00:33:04,070 --> 00:33:01,279
a letter from somebody at minot air

685
00:33:07,909 --> 00:33:04,080
force base and he included the radar

686
00:33:09,509 --> 00:33:07,919
photographs wow but nobody paid any

687
00:33:11,509 --> 00:33:09,519
attention to it because

688
00:33:13,269 --> 00:33:11,519
they had got rid of major keo and they

689
00:33:15,430 --> 00:33:13,279
got rid of gordon lore

690
00:33:17,029 --> 00:33:15,440
and the guy was running it he had no

691
00:33:19,909 --> 00:33:17,039
idea what he had

692
00:33:22,149 --> 00:33:19,919
i don't think he even read it in any

693
00:33:25,509 --> 00:33:22,159
case

694
00:33:29,509 --> 00:33:25,519
years later um

695
00:33:34,549 --> 00:33:29,519
kufos got the uh

696
00:33:42,789 --> 00:33:39,269
so uh tom tulene and i

697
00:33:46,389 --> 00:33:42,799
went and interviewed

698
00:33:49,269 --> 00:33:46,399
uh captain runyon who was the uh

699
00:33:52,310 --> 00:33:49,279
he was the co-pilot the pilot was

700
00:33:56,149 --> 00:33:52,320
sleeping at this time so

701
00:33:58,149 --> 00:33:56,159
uh and he did that on purpose because he

702
00:34:00,470 --> 00:33:58,159
he didn't want a ufo sighting on his

703
00:34:03,909 --> 00:34:00,480
record he was going for he was

704
00:34:06,389 --> 00:34:03,919
he wanted to join us

705
00:34:07,750 --> 00:34:06,399
an airline company he didn't want this

706
00:34:10,790 --> 00:34:07,760
on his record so he

707
00:34:13,510 --> 00:34:10,800
purposely went to sleep

708
00:34:14,629 --> 00:34:13,520
my goodness about that so we interviewed

709
00:34:19,270 --> 00:34:14,639
we interviewed the

710
00:34:21,270 --> 00:34:19,280
uh the pilot and there's also a check

711
00:34:22,790 --> 00:34:21,280
pilot in there that that's a guy that

712
00:34:24,950 --> 00:34:22,800
works on staff but

713
00:34:27,750 --> 00:34:24,960
he wants to keep his flying status there

714
00:34:29,909 --> 00:34:27,760
so he was he was the senior man on

715
00:34:31,829 --> 00:34:29,919
on the uh on the flight deck at that

716
00:34:35,829 --> 00:34:31,839
time

717
00:34:37,829 --> 00:34:35,839
so uh this guy gave us his story

718
00:34:39,909 --> 00:34:37,839
and we had already looked at the blue

719
00:34:42,389 --> 00:34:39,919
file you know this is kind of an

720
00:34:44,470 --> 00:34:42,399
impressive case

721
00:34:47,349 --> 00:34:44,480
but when he told us what was going on it

722
00:34:51,190 --> 00:34:47,359
was even more impressive

723
00:34:54,550 --> 00:34:51,200
uh and we we wanted to get in touch with

724
00:34:59,589 --> 00:34:54,560
other people on the aircraft

725
00:35:02,790 --> 00:34:59,599
and this uh we had not seen the radar

726
00:35:04,630 --> 00:35:02,800
we've seen the radar photographs

727
00:35:07,990 --> 00:35:04,640
in project blue book but they were

728
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:12,310
so uh

729
00:35:15,750 --> 00:35:14,310
we asked them is who who are the other

730
00:35:19,670 --> 00:35:15,760
people on your crew and he

731
00:35:22,150 --> 00:35:19,680
this captain he couldn't remember

732
00:35:24,069 --> 00:35:22,160
but then he went into his files and he

733
00:35:26,069 --> 00:35:24,079
found

734
00:35:28,470 --> 00:35:26,079
a picture of the crew standing out in

735
00:35:31,990 --> 00:35:28,480
front of the

736
00:35:35,109 --> 00:35:32,000
aircraft on on a landing pad

737
00:35:37,109 --> 00:35:35,119
and you could read everybody's name

738
00:35:40,310 --> 00:35:37,119
and once you did that he could remember

739
00:35:42,630 --> 00:35:40,320
the first names and everybody's name

740
00:35:45,030 --> 00:35:42,640
and over the years we contacted

741
00:35:49,670 --> 00:35:45,040
everybody that was still alive and

742
00:35:52,790 --> 00:35:49,680
they were interviewed and

743
00:35:55,270 --> 00:35:52,800
the radar guys they had uh

744
00:35:57,109 --> 00:35:55,280
they had their story to tell was where

745
00:35:59,589 --> 00:35:57,119
where you were on the aircraft is how

746
00:36:03,270 --> 00:35:59,599
you perceived what was going on so

747
00:36:09,430 --> 00:36:06,950
the electronics countermeasures

748
00:36:11,030 --> 00:36:09,440
fellow were both sitting together inside

749
00:36:14,870 --> 00:36:11,040
the aircraft they could not see

750
00:36:17,750 --> 00:36:14,880
outside in fact when the

751
00:36:19,109 --> 00:36:17,760
ufo when they when they contacted the

752
00:36:20,790 --> 00:36:19,119
ufo the pilot

753
00:36:23,109 --> 00:36:20,800
invited them to come up to the flight

754
00:36:24,710 --> 00:36:23,119
deck and they said we're not leaving our

755
00:36:28,150 --> 00:36:24,720
place here

756
00:36:32,390 --> 00:36:31,349
uh this this could be dangerous the ufo

757
00:36:36,870 --> 00:36:32,400
was going over

758
00:36:38,470 --> 00:36:36,880
uh a thousand miles an hour

759
00:36:39,990 --> 00:36:38,480
when it maneuvered and it was

760
00:36:43,750 --> 00:36:40,000
maneuvering behind them

761
00:36:47,190 --> 00:36:43,760
so uh this is fantastic now that's

762
00:36:51,990 --> 00:36:47,200
on the radar photographs

763
00:36:55,589 --> 00:36:52,000
we were luckily somebody had

764
00:36:58,310 --> 00:36:55,599
the intelligence officer at uh at minot

765
00:37:01,510 --> 00:36:58,320
had kept a copy of the radar photographs

766
00:37:05,510 --> 00:37:01,520
and he gave them to somebody in

767
00:37:07,430 --> 00:37:05,520
minnesota mufon this fellow didn't

768
00:37:08,069 --> 00:37:07,440
really know what he had but he knew it

769
00:37:11,430 --> 00:37:08,079
was something

770
00:37:11,910 --> 00:37:11,440
good and when we got hold of it it was

771
00:37:15,190 --> 00:37:11,920
great

772
00:37:18,720 --> 00:37:15,200
and we showed it to uh

773
00:37:21,589 --> 00:37:18,730
well two two radar experts

774
00:37:25,270 --> 00:37:21,599
[Music]

775
00:37:28,550 --> 00:37:25,280
evaluated the uh

776
00:37:32,110 --> 00:37:28,560
the uh pictures

777
00:37:33,829 --> 00:37:32,120
uh one had been the french

778
00:37:37,670 --> 00:37:33,839
[Music]

779
00:37:43,910 --> 00:37:37,680
ufo project head

780
00:37:51,510 --> 00:37:47,670
a controller an aircraft controller in

781
00:37:53,510 --> 00:37:51,520
england who was very familiar with radar

782
00:37:57,670 --> 00:37:53,520
and so those guys had evaluated and then

783
00:38:02,790 --> 00:38:00,790
and he recognized what was happening on

784
00:38:05,910 --> 00:38:02,800
the radar photographs immediately

785
00:38:08,710 --> 00:38:05,920
and then we showed them to uh colonel

786
00:38:12,710 --> 00:38:08,720
matson down at uh

787
00:38:14,710 --> 00:38:12,720
air and space museum in new mexico

788
00:38:16,630 --> 00:38:14,720
and the same thing happened he says i i

789
00:38:18,230 --> 00:38:16,640
can see what's going on here

790
00:38:20,950 --> 00:38:18,240
this thing is going back and forth and

791
00:38:21,670 --> 00:38:20,960
then and it's putting out a tremendous

792
00:38:26,550 --> 00:38:21,680
amount of

793
00:38:34,470 --> 00:38:29,910
plasma type stuff

794
00:38:36,390 --> 00:38:34,480
you know it's so

795
00:38:37,990 --> 00:38:36,400
now before you move on from there can

796
00:38:39,910 --> 00:38:38,000
you can

797
00:38:42,870 --> 00:38:39,920
can you tell me in what direction the

798
00:38:44,870 --> 00:38:42,880
plasma was going off of the object

799
00:38:46,069 --> 00:38:44,880
was it possibly going ahead of the

800
00:38:48,310 --> 00:38:46,079
object around it yeah

801
00:38:49,910 --> 00:38:48,320
yeah yeah they you know they said hey

802
00:38:54,470 --> 00:38:49,920
this is

803
00:38:56,390 --> 00:38:54,480
really important and that's where they

804
00:38:58,870 --> 00:38:56,400
got the uh

805
00:39:01,190 --> 00:38:58,880
the idea is you know how far away was

806
00:39:04,390 --> 00:39:01,200
from the aircraft

807
00:39:07,109 --> 00:39:04,400
by looking at the

808
00:39:08,950 --> 00:39:07,119
radar photographs and the interference

809
00:39:11,589 --> 00:39:08,960
that they encountered

810
00:39:13,589 --> 00:39:11,599
so that was uh had to be a lot of

811
00:39:17,430 --> 00:39:13,599
interference

812
00:39:22,870 --> 00:39:17,440
so wow

813
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,790
90s

814
00:39:35,109 --> 00:39:30,230
abc news did a special

815
00:39:37,589 --> 00:39:35,119
on uh on ufos

816
00:39:40,550 --> 00:39:37,599
and one of the things that they did is

817
00:39:42,550 --> 00:39:40,560
they completely re-uh

818
00:39:45,430 --> 00:39:42,560
inventoried everybody involved in the

819
00:39:48,710 --> 00:39:45,440
case so they investigated from scratch

820
00:39:50,230 --> 00:39:48,720
like we had done nothing like nobody

821
00:39:51,109 --> 00:39:50,240
knew anything about the case they

822
00:39:54,390 --> 00:39:51,119
started from

823
00:39:55,589 --> 00:39:54,400
absolute scratch and peter jennings was

824
00:39:57,910 --> 00:39:55,599
the uh

825
00:39:59,190 --> 00:39:57,920
was the newsman that was in in charge of

826
00:40:03,349 --> 00:39:59,200
that and he put

827
00:40:07,430 --> 00:40:03,359
he put a uh uh almost a three set

828
00:40:09,030 --> 00:40:07,440
a three-minute uh segment on his news

829
00:40:10,790 --> 00:40:09,040
program

830
00:40:13,109 --> 00:40:10,800
that's on that you know that's almost

831
00:40:16,390 --> 00:40:13,119
unheard of that's like you know

832
00:40:17,910 --> 00:40:16,400
on a a government assassination or

833
00:40:20,470 --> 00:40:17,920
something they don't usually give that

834
00:40:22,710 --> 00:40:20,480
much time to a ufo case but he gave a

835
00:40:24,710 --> 00:40:22,720
lot of

836
00:40:27,510 --> 00:40:24,720
time on his news program to this and

837
00:40:30,309 --> 00:40:27,520
then they did a special which they

838
00:40:30,950 --> 00:40:30,319
this was one of the main segments of the

839
00:40:36,150 --> 00:40:30,960
of the

840
00:40:42,230 --> 00:40:39,430
so so-called skeptics they're afraid of

841
00:40:45,990 --> 00:40:42,240
this case they won't go near it

842
00:40:49,910 --> 00:40:46,000
it's uh it's so well investigated and

843
00:40:54,470 --> 00:40:49,920
it's is nobody can propose a good

844
00:41:00,309 --> 00:40:56,790
the air force said was uh there was a

845
00:41:05,190 --> 00:41:01,990
in the lower atmosphere well if you've

846
00:41:08,309 --> 00:41:05,200
got a long lasting plasma ball

847
00:41:10,630 --> 00:41:08,319
in the lower atmosphere you've got all

848
00:41:12,870 --> 00:41:10,640
kinds of uh

849
00:41:15,030 --> 00:41:12,880
aerial hazards to aircraft and that

850
00:41:15,589 --> 00:41:15,040
should have been immediately reported as

851
00:42:18,230 --> 00:41:15,599
a

852
00:42:21,589 --> 00:42:18,240
supporting documents uh the interviews

853
00:42:23,829 --> 00:42:21,599
it's all there yeah it's a see

854
00:42:26,309 --> 00:42:23,839
this is something that a lot of

855
00:42:29,670 --> 00:42:26,319
ufologists can't handle either

856
00:42:31,589 --> 00:42:29,680
it's a little complicated for them so

857
00:42:33,670 --> 00:42:31,599
you know it's not it's not well known

858
00:42:34,630 --> 00:42:33,680
but this is this is probably one of the

859
00:42:38,309 --> 00:42:34,640
best cases

860
00:42:41,349 --> 00:42:38,319
on record and really well investigated

861
00:42:45,430 --> 00:42:41,359
you traveled thousands of miles

862
00:42:49,670 --> 00:42:47,510
investigations involved traveling

863
00:42:51,190 --> 00:42:49,680
thousands of miles and spending about

864
00:42:54,150 --> 00:42:51,200
twenty thousand dollars on this

865
00:43:01,430 --> 00:42:57,190
and then abc news

866
00:43:04,790 --> 00:43:01,440
did it again from scratch

867
00:43:08,630 --> 00:43:04,800
yeah i saw that that's uh there's

868
00:43:11,349 --> 00:43:08,640
the title to that um is let's see

869
00:43:12,470 --> 00:43:11,359
ufo seeing is believing with peter

870
00:43:15,910 --> 00:43:12,480
jennings

871
00:43:16,710 --> 00:43:15,920
yeah how about that we have a question

872
00:43:19,030 --> 00:43:16,720
someone

873
00:43:19,750 --> 00:43:19,040
posted in the chat room steven wanted to

874
00:43:22,470 --> 00:43:19,760
know

875
00:43:24,870 --> 00:43:22,480
as far as your scanning goes are you

876
00:43:29,150 --> 00:43:24,880
just doing straight scans are you doing

877
00:43:34,950 --> 00:43:31,109
[Music]

878
00:43:38,309 --> 00:43:34,960
um and text reader scan

879
00:43:39,349 --> 00:43:38,319
actually will digitize the text as it's

880
00:43:41,670 --> 00:43:39,359
scanning

881
00:43:42,790 --> 00:43:41,680
so that's uh uh that hasn't been around

882
00:43:46,710 --> 00:43:42,800
i mean we're doing

883
00:43:50,069 --> 00:43:46,720
we're doing jpegs in uh pdfs

884
00:43:54,870 --> 00:43:50,079
i see yeah yeah some of it some of it

885
00:43:56,390 --> 00:43:54,880
is um you know word some of it is word

886
00:43:59,510 --> 00:43:56,400
it depends

887
00:44:03,349 --> 00:43:59,520
um however

888
00:44:06,870 --> 00:44:03,359
uh i think with the way it's

889
00:44:10,150 --> 00:44:06,880
the the title of each

890
00:44:13,910 --> 00:44:10,160
item is a

891
00:44:18,150 --> 00:44:13,920
date starting by year

892
00:44:21,589 --> 00:44:18,160
month and day and then location

893
00:44:24,309 --> 00:44:21,599
so what country was it in and what

894
00:44:26,069 --> 00:44:24,319
state what city and then what kind of a

895
00:44:31,750 --> 00:44:26,079
case was it

896
00:44:32,309 --> 00:44:31,760
was it a ce2 case or was it an aircraft

897
00:44:35,750 --> 00:44:32,319
case

898
00:44:36,069 --> 00:44:35,760
or was it so all of that is you can call

899
00:44:40,790 --> 00:44:36,079
that

900
00:44:45,670 --> 00:44:40,800
up by by doing this um

901
00:44:50,069 --> 00:44:45,680
yeah i know that uh pdfs can be uh

902
00:44:52,470 --> 00:44:50,079
put into readable text but that's

903
00:44:58,069 --> 00:44:52,480
we're trying to get nine women pregnant

904
00:45:01,030 --> 00:44:59,190
i don't think i've ever heard that

905
00:45:01,670 --> 00:45:01,040
saying but i understand where you're

906
00:45:05,190 --> 00:45:01,680
going

907
00:45:07,349 --> 00:45:05,200
with that that's funny that's a army

908
00:45:09,190 --> 00:45:07,359
that's an army thing i was oh yeah a

909
00:45:12,230 --> 00:45:09,200
retired army yeah

910
00:45:14,710 --> 00:45:12,240
um so speaking of our army

911
00:45:16,630 --> 00:45:14,720
the army air force at the time uh one of

912
00:45:18,870 --> 00:45:16,640
the things you've looked into

913
00:45:20,950 --> 00:45:18,880
is the foo fighters which i think is

914
00:45:24,230 --> 00:45:20,960
fascinating

915
00:45:26,230 --> 00:45:24,240
and can you talk about um

916
00:45:28,069 --> 00:45:26,240
there's a little misconception i've i've

917
00:45:30,150 --> 00:45:28,079
heard people say that they were

918
00:45:32,309 --> 00:45:30,160
they were orbs and lights but i heard

919
00:45:33,190 --> 00:45:32,319
you say that their discs or people are

920
00:45:37,750 --> 00:45:33,200
reporting small

921
00:45:39,430 --> 00:45:37,760
discs or something right um

922
00:45:41,510 --> 00:45:39,440
well let's put this way everything has

923
00:45:46,230 --> 00:45:41,520
been

924
00:45:49,670 --> 00:45:46,240
a lot of a lot of the foo fighter

925
00:45:53,430 --> 00:45:49,680
well foo fighters is just for one

926
00:45:58,390 --> 00:45:53,440
small area in france and germany

927
00:46:03,430 --> 00:46:01,270
night fighter squadron was located they

928
00:46:06,790 --> 00:46:03,440
gave that nickname to the thing but

929
00:46:09,190 --> 00:46:06,800
actually it's it's world war ii ufos

930
00:46:10,150 --> 00:46:09,200
and you got everything you got night

931
00:46:13,670 --> 00:46:10,160
lights you got

932
00:46:18,069 --> 00:46:13,680
you got uh to a certain extent uh

933
00:46:21,829 --> 00:46:18,079
very close encounters with the aircraft

934
00:46:28,630 --> 00:46:25,510
and things like that so

935
00:46:33,589 --> 00:46:28,640
i just say world war ii ufos

936
00:46:37,109 --> 00:46:33,599
now uh a lot of it is not

937
00:46:39,589 --> 00:46:37,119
um in official records but there is a

938
00:46:42,540 --> 00:46:39,599
huge amount in official records and it

939
00:46:44,630 --> 00:46:42,550
hasn't all been found yet

940
00:46:47,750 --> 00:46:44,640
[Music]

941
00:46:50,790 --> 00:46:47,760
in in 1943 there was

942
00:46:53,990 --> 00:46:50,800
a small discs

943
00:46:57,270 --> 00:46:54,000
encountered over

944
00:47:00,390 --> 00:46:57,280
schweinfurt which is one of germany's

945
00:47:05,030 --> 00:47:00,400
big giant ball bearing

946
00:47:07,030 --> 00:47:05,040
in industrial areas um

947
00:47:08,829 --> 00:47:07,040
and to a certain extent there's been

948
00:47:13,589 --> 00:47:08,839
some

949
00:47:15,990 --> 00:47:13,599
uh what can i say confabulation

950
00:47:16,950 --> 00:47:16,000
of of other cases with the swine for

951
00:47:20,630 --> 00:47:16,960
case well so

952
00:47:24,549 --> 00:47:20,640
swineford is uh is about the

953
00:47:27,750 --> 00:47:24,559
best known case and it was a very uh

954
00:47:29,589 --> 00:47:27,760
it's a very bloody aerial battle

955
00:47:31,270 --> 00:47:29,599
you know for these bombers to try to go

956
00:47:35,190 --> 00:47:31,280
in and bomb

957
00:47:37,510 --> 00:47:35,200
um and they encountered these discs

958
00:47:38,950 --> 00:47:37,520
now no as far as i know nobody got hurt

959
00:47:41,829 --> 00:47:38,960
in the schweinfurt

960
00:47:43,510 --> 00:47:41,839
raid but there was a raid on stoop guard

961
00:47:44,230 --> 00:47:43,520
and one of these just fell on an

962
00:47:48,549 --> 00:47:44,240
aircraft

963
00:47:52,390 --> 00:47:48,559
on a wing and the plane caught on fire

964
00:47:56,150 --> 00:47:52,400
wow so the

965
00:48:00,950 --> 00:47:56,160
commander of the 8th air force

966
00:48:03,589 --> 00:48:00,960
ira eckert wrote directly to the

967
00:48:04,870 --> 00:48:03,599
commander of the army air forces and

968
00:48:06,230 --> 00:48:04,880
said

969
00:48:08,069 --> 00:48:06,240
i don't know what these things are but

970
00:48:08,790 --> 00:48:08,079
they're setting our aircraft on fire and

971
00:48:12,230 --> 00:48:08,800
it's it

972
00:48:16,630 --> 00:48:12,240
it appears to be a very big danger to us

973
00:48:17,589 --> 00:48:16,640
so uh and arnold saw the possibility

974
00:48:22,390 --> 00:48:17,599
these

975
00:48:26,309 --> 00:48:22,400
as being a

976
00:48:28,549 --> 00:48:26,319
uh possibly stopping

977
00:48:30,230 --> 00:48:28,559
strategic bombing in europe so he wrote

978
00:48:32,790 --> 00:48:30,240
to uh

979
00:48:34,390 --> 00:48:32,800
general marshall who was head of the

980
00:48:37,430 --> 00:48:34,400
military at the time

981
00:48:40,549 --> 00:48:37,440
and dr

982
00:48:45,190 --> 00:48:40,559
vanderburgh bush who was the

983
00:48:53,030 --> 00:48:49,270
advisors to the military at the time

984
00:48:55,910 --> 00:48:53,040
uh while they were

985
00:48:57,589 --> 00:48:55,920
worried about it they said there's other

986
00:49:00,710 --> 00:48:57,599
things that could be just as

987
00:49:02,390 --> 00:49:00,720
important going on which could could

988
00:49:05,589 --> 00:49:02,400
cause us to

989
00:49:08,950 --> 00:49:05,599
uh lose bombers anyways

990
00:49:09,990 --> 00:49:08,960
uh so arnold's on record is doing that

991
00:49:14,470 --> 00:49:10,000
and i think that's

992
00:49:16,309 --> 00:49:14,480
why i can't prove it but i'm pretty sure

993
00:49:18,230 --> 00:49:16,319
he was concerned about anything in the

994
00:49:21,750 --> 00:49:18,240
air after that

995
00:49:23,349 --> 00:49:21,760
now the oss did find a factory in

996
00:49:26,470 --> 00:49:23,359
switzerland

997
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:26,480
that was making bombs about the size of

998
00:49:28,950 --> 00:49:26,970
these

999
00:49:31,990 --> 00:49:28,960
[Music]

1000
00:49:33,109 --> 00:49:32,000
aerial bombs that they would you know

1001
00:49:36,470 --> 00:49:33,119
you could drop

1002
00:49:39,910 --> 00:49:36,480
from a aircraft that's higher up onto

1003
00:49:44,069 --> 00:49:39,920
a formation of aircraft

1004
00:49:45,990 --> 00:49:44,079
and it was a top secret uh

1005
00:49:48,790 --> 00:49:46,000
finding it's it's on my website if you

1006
00:49:51,910 --> 00:49:48,800
go to 1945

1007
00:49:57,670 --> 00:49:51,920
the 1945 year

1008
00:50:03,430 --> 00:50:01,109
so arnold was concerned about uh

1009
00:50:05,190 --> 00:50:03,440
uh things in the pacific and things in

1010
00:50:10,950 --> 00:50:05,200
the uh

1011
00:50:14,790 --> 00:50:13,349
he had a special aide named uh joe

1012
00:50:18,950 --> 00:50:14,800
chamberlain who uh

1013
00:50:21,990 --> 00:50:18,960
had worked at uh columbia university

1014
00:50:23,589 --> 00:50:22,000
and he also uh knew elliott ness he had

1015
00:50:26,870 --> 00:50:23,599
written

1016
00:50:29,109 --> 00:50:26,880
uh magazine articles with elliot ness

1017
00:50:31,670 --> 00:50:29,119
and he was a special aide to arnold he

1018
00:50:34,549 --> 00:50:31,680
would he wrote his speeches and

1019
00:50:37,349 --> 00:50:34,559
he did publicity work for the army air

1020
00:50:42,390 --> 00:50:40,390
arnold sent him to europe while the war

1021
00:50:43,589 --> 00:50:42,400
was still going on and he went to france

1022
00:50:46,950 --> 00:50:43,599
and he went to the

1023
00:50:51,109 --> 00:50:46,960
415 knight fighter squadron

1024
00:50:54,390 --> 00:50:51,119
which was which was seeing these things

1025
00:50:58,309 --> 00:50:54,400
now he uh he stayed with him for

1026
00:51:00,790 --> 00:50:58,319
you know and talked to them uh

1027
00:51:01,589 --> 00:51:00,800
almost everyone he interviewed him all

1028
00:51:05,030 --> 00:51:01,599
also the

1029
00:51:08,069 --> 00:51:05,040
uh um

1030
00:51:16,230 --> 00:51:08,079
uh bob

1031
00:51:20,790 --> 00:51:16,240
ap reporter he had

1032
00:51:24,630 --> 00:51:20,800
uh also talked to these people

1033
00:51:30,950 --> 00:51:24,640
uh stayed stayed with them and uh

1034
00:51:36,870 --> 00:51:34,069
edward clark who was a

1035
00:51:38,230 --> 00:51:36,880
reporter for stars and stripes so all

1036
00:51:41,030 --> 00:51:38,240
these people

1037
00:51:42,150 --> 00:51:41,040
they got their they gathered the foo

1038
00:51:45,990 --> 00:51:42,160
fighter material

1039
00:51:49,270 --> 00:51:46,000
first hand so if you see a uh

1040
00:51:52,309 --> 00:51:49,280
1915 see a world war ii

1041
00:51:55,750 --> 00:51:52,319
article which has wilson's

1042
00:52:00,309 --> 00:51:55,760
byline he got this directly from

1043
00:52:07,829 --> 00:52:04,630
so ed clark had seen a uh

1044
00:52:09,510 --> 00:52:07,839
a foo fighter by himself because he went

1045
00:52:13,270 --> 00:52:09,520
up with one of the

1046
00:52:17,510 --> 00:52:13,280
flights on christmas eve and they had

1047
00:52:21,270 --> 00:52:19,430
and that's in the uh unit history so

1048
00:52:23,190 --> 00:52:21,280
that supports him and he wrote about it

1049
00:52:26,630 --> 00:52:23,200
in 1950 he said

1050
00:52:33,430 --> 00:52:30,390
um then the uh air force uh

1051
00:52:37,190 --> 00:52:33,440
scientific advisor in europe arnold

1052
00:52:38,470 --> 00:52:37,200
sent him a message dr david griggs who

1053
00:52:41,510 --> 00:52:38,480
becomes the

1054
00:52:49,430 --> 00:52:44,950
air force advisor in later years

1055
00:52:53,910 --> 00:52:53,030
griggs said arnold told him to go

1056
00:52:55,750 --> 00:52:53,920
everywhere and

1057
00:52:57,030 --> 00:52:55,760
and find out what you can about these

1058
00:53:00,069 --> 00:52:57,040
things so he

1059
00:53:01,750 --> 00:53:00,079
he said every theater i went to we

1060
00:53:04,230 --> 00:53:01,760
encountered these things

1061
00:53:06,150 --> 00:53:04,240
didn't matter what where it was he said

1062
00:53:06,790 --> 00:53:06,160
the pacific ones were a little different

1063
00:53:12,230 --> 00:53:06,800
from the

1064
00:53:15,349 --> 00:53:14,950
so he wrote a report and his conclusion

1065
00:53:17,910 --> 00:53:15,359
was

1066
00:53:20,069 --> 00:53:17,920
uh inconclusive he said i don't i don't

1067
00:53:24,230 --> 00:53:20,079
know what they are

1068
00:53:30,230 --> 00:53:24,240
um they're awful strange

1069
00:53:34,630 --> 00:53:33,030
and he was in a robertson panel he was

1070
00:53:37,670 --> 00:53:34,640
he was cited as the

1071
00:53:39,349 --> 00:53:37,680
most knowledgeable person on

1072
00:53:44,790 --> 00:53:39,359
griggs was cited as the most

1073
00:53:49,589 --> 00:53:46,630
keith chester who wrote a book called

1074
00:53:54,630 --> 00:53:49,599
strange company which i recommend highly

1075
00:53:54,640 --> 00:54:00,230
uh griggs or uh

1076
00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:04,230
i'm sorry the uh

1077
00:54:10,950 --> 00:54:07,829
we we've found from the uh

1078
00:54:15,190 --> 00:54:10,960
records in europe that there was

1079
00:54:21,109 --> 00:54:18,870
it was run by a lieutenant colonel

1080
00:54:24,390 --> 00:54:21,119
o'meara who was also in charge

1081
00:54:27,910 --> 00:54:24,400
of the german scientist that had been

1082
00:54:31,030 --> 00:54:27,920
captured and waiting to be transported

1083
00:54:34,390 --> 00:54:31,040
to the united states

1084
00:54:37,190 --> 00:54:34,400
so omar was also the head of the

1085
00:54:39,510 --> 00:54:37,200
investigation into foo fighters

1086
00:54:41,430 --> 00:54:39,520
general mcdonald was the head of

1087
00:54:46,230 --> 00:54:41,440
intelligence in europe

1088
00:54:47,670 --> 00:54:46,240
and in november uh 1945 after the war

1089
00:54:51,190 --> 00:54:47,680
was over

1090
00:54:55,430 --> 00:54:51,200
he had sent the pentagon

1091
00:54:58,150 --> 00:54:55,440
a letter saying hey we've looked all

1092
00:54:59,910 --> 00:54:58,160
at everything that germans had and

1093
00:55:03,829 --> 00:54:59,920
talked to german

1094
00:55:07,270 --> 00:55:03,839
scientists military leaders and

1095
00:55:09,510 --> 00:55:07,280
aviation experts and the germans had no

1096
00:55:12,710 --> 00:55:09,520
idea what these were

1097
00:55:16,390 --> 00:55:12,720
and he said what they are is

1098
00:55:18,230 --> 00:55:16,400
inclusive wow hey i i hate to

1099
00:55:19,430 --> 00:55:18,240
to break you but we are actually right

1100
00:55:21,589 --> 00:55:19,440
at our break

1101
00:55:23,430 --> 00:55:21,599
so i'm gonna have to we're gonna have to

1102
00:55:25,349 --> 00:55:23,440
break and uh we'll be

1103
00:55:27,910 --> 00:55:25,359
right back i'm gonna play something here

1104
00:55:30,549 --> 00:55:27,920
on youtube but uh we'll be right back

1105
00:55:31,510 --> 00:55:30,559
uh right after this break so hang in

1106
00:55:33,670 --> 00:55:31,520
everyone

1107
00:56:09,220 --> 00:55:33,680
uh for these commercials and we'll be

1108
00:57:15,010 --> 00:56:17,510
[Music]

1109
00:57:15,020 --> 00:58:01,349
[Applause]

1110
00:58:04,630 --> 00:58:03,990
all right martin you can start in three

1111
00:58:07,750 --> 00:58:04,640
two

1112
00:58:11,190 --> 00:58:07,760
one go all right i'm back

1113
00:58:14,069 --> 00:58:11,200
and uh hey jan i have a surprise

1114
00:58:14,710 --> 00:58:14,079
um i didn't actually tell you this but i

1115
00:58:17,589 --> 00:58:14,720
actually have

1116
00:58:18,950 --> 00:58:17,599
dave marler joining us for a few minutes

1117
00:58:22,470 --> 00:58:18,960
oh okay

1118
00:58:24,630 --> 00:58:22,480
yeah uh uh dave how are you

1119
00:58:25,829 --> 00:58:24,640
good to see you martin how are you doing

1120
00:58:30,549 --> 00:58:25,839
good to see you too

1121
00:58:34,150 --> 00:58:33,030
uh dave you've uh the reason i i thought

1122
00:58:35,910 --> 00:58:34,160
i'd bring you in because i know that

1123
00:58:41,910 --> 00:58:35,920
you've been working

1124
00:58:43,750 --> 00:58:41,920
on some projects yes i've been lucky

1125
00:58:45,190 --> 00:58:43,760
enough to be the recipient of a number

1126
00:58:47,030 --> 00:58:45,200
of boxes in fact i think

1127
00:58:49,270 --> 00:58:47,040
jan just got back from the post office a

1128
00:58:49,990 --> 00:58:49,280
few hours ago and shipped about another

1129
00:58:52,470 --> 00:58:50,000
five boxes

1130
00:58:53,750 --> 00:58:52,480
out to me today uh and i have ten i

1131
00:58:56,230 --> 00:58:53,760
think i need to pick up today

1132
00:58:57,910 --> 00:58:56,240
tonight at the mailbox so uh he's been

1133
00:58:58,950 --> 00:58:57,920
uh sharing a lot of his historical

1134
00:59:01,109 --> 00:58:58,960
material and

1135
00:59:02,710 --> 00:59:01,119
uh i'm happy to say without going into

1136
00:59:04,950 --> 00:59:02,720
too much detail because there's some big

1137
00:59:06,710 --> 00:59:04,960
surprises uh that we'll be announcing in

1138
00:59:09,109 --> 00:59:06,720
the next week and a half or so

1139
00:59:10,630 --> 00:59:09,119
but we're working on with the help of a

1140
00:59:13,349 --> 00:59:10,640
financial benefactor

1141
00:59:15,270 --> 00:59:13,359
to digitize some of the paper files and

1142
00:59:18,230 --> 00:59:15,280
some of the microfilm reels that

1143
00:59:18,870 --> 00:59:18,240
jan has shared with me and as jan

1144
00:59:20,230 --> 00:59:18,880
alluded to

1145
00:59:22,950 --> 00:59:20,240
just a few days ago when we were

1146
00:59:24,230 --> 00:59:22,960
chatting uh some of this material has

1147
00:59:27,430 --> 00:59:24,240
never been seen

1148
00:59:29,750 --> 00:59:27,440
uh by the the larger ufo community

1149
00:59:30,470 --> 00:59:29,760
many of these are scrapbooks news

1150
00:59:33,030 --> 00:59:30,480
clippings

1151
00:59:34,069 --> 00:59:33,040
dating back to the early 1950s all the

1152
00:59:37,030 --> 00:59:34,079
way up until

1153
00:59:37,910 --> 00:59:37,040
the late 60s early 70s as well as some

1154
00:59:40,950 --> 00:59:37,920
of the early

1155
00:59:42,630 --> 00:59:40,960
csi uh documents civilian saucer

1156
00:59:44,710 --> 00:59:42,640
intelligence of new york

1157
00:59:45,910 --> 00:59:44,720
and certainly i can let jan speak a

1158
00:59:47,750 --> 00:59:45,920
little bit more to that he knows the

1159
00:59:49,430 --> 00:59:47,760
history much better than i do but

1160
00:59:51,670 --> 00:59:49,440
i do just want to say since i have this

1161
00:59:53,990 --> 00:59:51,680
opportunity with you and your audience

1162
00:59:55,510 --> 00:59:54,000
when i first got involved in ufos and i

1163
00:59:57,990 --> 00:59:55,520
think i told jan this in a

1164
00:59:59,990 --> 00:59:58,000
recent phone call i was starting to

1165
01:00:02,789 --> 01:00:00,000
learn about the people the places

1166
01:00:04,150 --> 01:00:02,799
the cases etc and i kept coming across

1167
01:00:07,430 --> 01:00:04,160
references to this jan

1168
01:00:10,230 --> 01:00:07,440
aldrich jan aldridge and and

1169
01:00:11,910 --> 01:00:10,240
at that time i'm talking in 1990 i was

1170
01:00:13,829 --> 01:00:11,920
hard-pressed to even find a picture

1171
01:00:15,750 --> 01:00:13,839
of jan aldrich and i'm like who is this

1172
01:00:17,510 --> 01:00:15,760
mysterious character i keep seeing his

1173
01:00:20,789 --> 01:00:17,520
name on everything

1174
01:00:22,309 --> 01:00:20,799
and you know years later fast forward

1175
01:00:24,630 --> 01:00:22,319
not only had the chance to get to meet

1176
01:00:25,190 --> 01:00:24,640
jan to get to know him as an individual

1177
01:00:27,190 --> 01:00:25,200
but you know

1178
01:00:29,910 --> 01:00:27,200
respect his work even more getting to

1179
01:00:31,750 --> 01:00:29,920
know his his work ethic his tenacity

1180
01:00:33,349 --> 01:00:31,760
uh you know some people martin as you

1181
01:00:33,910 --> 01:00:33,359
know and many of your audience members

1182
01:00:36,390 --> 01:00:33,920
know

1183
01:00:37,190 --> 01:00:36,400
people come in and out of the ufo field

1184
01:00:40,150 --> 01:00:37,200
it's very

1185
01:00:41,430 --> 01:00:40,160
rare that you find someone that sticks

1186
01:00:44,470 --> 01:00:41,440
with this subject

1187
01:00:44,870 --> 01:00:44,480
with such tenacity as jan aldridge has

1188
01:00:48,230 --> 01:00:44,880
done

1189
01:00:51,430 --> 01:00:48,240
over decades not months not years

1190
01:00:53,589 --> 01:00:51,440
decades and has done so

1191
01:00:54,789 --> 01:00:53,599
and has diligently worked to bring this

1192
01:00:57,109 --> 01:00:54,799
history to light

1193
01:00:58,710 --> 01:00:57,119
and i i think even people that are

1194
01:01:01,829 --> 01:00:58,720
involved in ufos sometimes

1195
01:01:04,470 --> 01:01:01,839
fail to realize the rich history

1196
01:01:05,910 --> 01:01:04,480
that we have uh quite often on these

1197
01:01:08,390 --> 01:01:05,920
television shows

1198
01:01:10,069 --> 01:01:08,400
uh much to the detriment of i think ufo

1199
01:01:12,870 --> 01:01:10,079
research they focus on the same

1200
01:01:14,309 --> 01:01:12,880
cases at infinite ad nauseam there's

1201
01:01:16,230 --> 01:01:14,319
only so many times we can hear about

1202
01:01:18,470 --> 01:01:16,240
bent waters or the phoenix lights or the

1203
01:01:19,750 --> 01:01:18,480
january 5th 2000 case that i personally

1204
01:01:21,510 --> 01:01:19,760
investigated

1205
01:01:22,789 --> 01:01:21,520
and not that they're not good cases

1206
01:01:25,030 --> 01:01:22,799
don't get me wrong

1207
01:01:27,750 --> 01:01:25,040
but these producers they always want to

1208
01:01:30,150 --> 01:01:27,760
focus on the sensational cases

1209
01:01:32,230 --> 01:01:30,160
but some of the most intriguing

1210
01:01:33,990 --> 01:01:32,240
information is buried in these obscure

1211
01:01:36,390 --> 01:01:34,000
reports that jan

1212
01:01:38,870 --> 01:01:36,400
has gathered going through military

1213
01:01:42,069 --> 01:01:38,880
archives going through scrapbooks

1214
01:01:43,670 --> 01:01:42,079
and you know one case is fascinating but

1215
01:01:45,750 --> 01:01:43,680
i think when we make an argument for the

1216
01:01:48,069 --> 01:01:45,760
reality of the ufo phenomenon

1217
01:01:50,230 --> 01:01:48,079
we're looking at patterns in the data

1218
01:01:51,109 --> 01:01:50,240
and in in so doing you have to go

1219
01:01:53,990 --> 01:01:51,119
through

1220
01:01:55,190 --> 01:01:54,000
the minutia of government files

1221
01:01:57,910 --> 01:01:55,200
scrapbooks

1222
01:01:59,670 --> 01:01:57,920
newspaper archives and to me it's when

1223
01:02:01,109 --> 01:01:59,680
you start connecting those dots and you

1224
01:02:02,069 --> 01:02:01,119
start to show there's patterns in the

1225
01:02:04,630 --> 01:02:02,079
data

1226
01:02:05,990 --> 01:02:04,640
that is what's most intriguing and

1227
01:02:07,430 --> 01:02:06,000
myself and other researchers

1228
01:02:09,510 --> 01:02:07,440
couldn't do that without the efforts of

1229
01:02:11,910 --> 01:02:09,520
people like jan aldridge

1230
01:02:13,029 --> 01:02:11,920
right right hey hey jen um we're going

1231
01:02:14,870 --> 01:02:13,039
to be we'll

1232
01:02:16,630 --> 01:02:14,880
uh go back and engage with where you

1233
01:02:20,069 --> 01:02:16,640
were talking about the foo fighters

1234
01:02:21,109 --> 01:02:20,079
in in a bit um but while dave's here uh

1235
01:02:23,109 --> 01:02:21,119
have you ever

1236
01:02:25,349 --> 01:02:23,119
been really discouraged you know he just

1237
01:02:26,870 --> 01:02:25,359
mentioned how you've hung in for decades

1238
01:02:28,870 --> 01:02:26,880
but i know a lot of people that have

1239
01:02:31,349 --> 01:02:28,880
been um at this topic

1240
01:02:33,029 --> 01:02:31,359
i've spoken to that just want to throw

1241
01:02:34,470 --> 01:02:33,039
in the towel sometimes when they get fed

1242
01:02:36,390 --> 01:02:34,480
up with

1243
01:02:37,990 --> 01:02:36,400
where the ufo field is going have you

1244
01:02:41,270 --> 01:02:38,000
ever felt that way

1245
01:02:47,190 --> 01:02:43,990
well i i thought so but you hang in and

1246
01:02:51,750 --> 01:02:47,200
what may what makes you hang in

1247
01:02:54,230 --> 01:02:51,760
um there's so much mysterious stuff

1248
01:02:56,630 --> 01:02:54,240
and this explanation and that

1249
01:03:00,069 --> 01:02:56,640
explanation don't work

1250
01:03:03,670 --> 01:03:00,079
i'm sorry yeah um

1251
01:03:07,829 --> 01:03:03,680
and uh what really angers me is

1252
01:03:10,470 --> 01:03:07,839
one very prominent scientist says

1253
01:03:12,230 --> 01:03:10,480
i don't i don't study cases and i don't

1254
01:03:14,630 --> 01:03:12,240
study ufos

1255
01:03:15,990 --> 01:03:14,640
but he's on every show that he can

1256
01:03:19,109 --> 01:03:16,000
possibly get on with

1257
01:03:22,390 --> 01:03:19,119
his opinion so uh

1258
01:03:26,069 --> 01:03:22,400
i i'm uh you know that's a it's a

1259
01:03:32,470 --> 01:03:26,079
uh it's an advertisement for

1260
01:03:40,390 --> 01:03:37,109
this particular person work for a um

1261
01:03:42,829 --> 01:03:40,400
an organization oh yeah

1262
01:03:45,109 --> 01:03:42,839
yeah i think i know who you're talking

1263
01:03:47,829 --> 01:03:45,119
about scientists he's

1264
01:03:49,510 --> 01:03:47,839
he's on every ufo program you can you

1265
01:03:56,829 --> 01:03:49,520
could imagine

1266
01:03:59,430 --> 01:03:57,990
yes

1267
01:04:01,029 --> 01:03:59,440
know exactly what you're talking about

1268
01:04:02,230 --> 01:04:01,039
we're not gonna bring up his name i love

1269
01:04:04,390 --> 01:04:02,240
that

1270
01:04:06,630 --> 01:04:04,400
you know you can explain everything

1271
01:04:11,109 --> 01:04:06,640
without ever doing research

1272
01:04:13,430 --> 01:04:11,119
or you know just 15 minutes

1273
01:04:14,309 --> 01:04:13,440
15 seconds after you hear something you

1274
01:04:19,190 --> 01:04:14,319
can

1275
01:04:22,390 --> 01:04:19,200
explanation

1276
01:04:26,230 --> 01:04:22,400
um you know beyond me

1277
01:04:28,789 --> 01:04:26,240
uh it it's unscientific

1278
01:04:30,069 --> 01:04:28,799
right right i have no explanation for

1279
01:04:33,109 --> 01:04:30,079
ufos i'm sorry

1280
01:04:35,190 --> 01:04:33,119
i don't and that's that's a lot of

1281
01:04:38,829 --> 01:04:35,200
experience there

1282
01:04:39,990 --> 01:04:38,839
i've read thousands and thousands of

1283
01:04:43,270 --> 01:04:40,000
reports

1284
01:04:45,750 --> 01:04:43,280
and many of them are just trivial

1285
01:04:47,670 --> 01:04:45,760
but there's so many that aren't there's

1286
01:04:48,390 --> 01:04:47,680
enough that aren't that makes it look

1287
01:04:51,910 --> 01:04:48,400
like

1288
01:04:53,349 --> 01:04:51,920
something needs to be done well as i've

1289
01:04:56,710 --> 01:04:53,359
heard many times

1290
01:04:59,349 --> 01:04:56,720
said that it only takes one real case

1291
01:05:00,710 --> 01:04:59,359
you know one whatever wherever they're

1292
01:05:02,549 --> 01:05:00,720
coming from i mean

1293
01:05:04,630 --> 01:05:02,559
um you know i mentioned on this show

1294
01:05:06,470 --> 01:05:04,640
quite often i this is my ninth year

1295
01:05:09,510 --> 01:05:06,480
doing the show i know less

1296
01:05:10,309 --> 01:05:09,520
than i did before i started you know i

1297
01:05:12,549 --> 01:05:10,319
mean

1298
01:05:13,910 --> 01:05:12,559
maybe i thought i knew something but i i

1299
01:05:15,510 --> 01:05:13,920
yeah we don't

1300
01:05:18,230 --> 01:05:15,520
right that's run the other way from

1301
01:05:21,349 --> 01:05:18,240
someone who knows everything

1302
01:05:25,109 --> 01:05:21,359
ted bloacher who's worked for csi

1303
01:05:28,789 --> 01:05:25,119
uh new york he he said

1304
01:05:31,349 --> 01:05:28,799
after being in it for uh decades he said

1305
01:05:34,069 --> 01:05:31,359
i uh this is where i came in it's like

1306
01:05:35,750 --> 01:05:34,079
coming into a movie you've already seen

1307
01:05:37,510 --> 01:05:35,760
but you still don't understand what's

1308
01:05:41,109 --> 01:05:37,520
happening

1309
01:05:45,430 --> 01:05:41,119
so yeah that's fascinating

1310
01:05:47,829 --> 01:05:45,440
so uh dave back to you are you going to

1311
01:05:49,589 --> 01:05:47,839
i mean you just keep getting more files

1312
01:05:53,029 --> 01:05:49,599
and more files

1313
01:05:54,870 --> 01:05:53,039
are you do you have a lot of property no

1314
01:05:56,470 --> 01:05:54,880
actually i i was remarking to jan on the

1315
01:05:58,630 --> 01:05:56,480
phone just the other day that uh we're

1316
01:06:02,150 --> 01:05:58,640
running into a square footage issue here

1317
01:06:03,430 --> 01:06:02,160
uh short of building an underground

1318
01:06:03,990 --> 01:06:03,440
bunker i'm not quite sure what we're

1319
01:06:07,029 --> 01:06:04,000
going to do

1320
01:06:09,190 --> 01:06:07,039
but uh a bad idea we may allocate we may

1321
01:06:12,150 --> 01:06:09,200
allocate some of my holdings to

1322
01:06:13,670 --> 01:06:12,160
unm uh before my death rather than after

1323
01:06:16,710 --> 01:06:13,680
my death just to accommodate

1324
01:06:18,230 --> 01:06:16,720
uh the influx of some very exciting

1325
01:06:21,270 --> 01:06:18,240
materials let me just say that

1326
01:06:21,910 --> 01:06:21,280
in the next week or two and uh jan's a

1327
01:06:24,950 --> 01:06:21,920
big part of it

1328
01:06:26,630 --> 01:06:24,960
nothing to say about it if he doesn't

1329
01:06:30,829 --> 01:06:26,640
allocate the materials to you

1330
01:06:32,470 --> 01:06:30,839
uh university of new mexico he may be

1331
01:06:34,309 --> 01:06:32,480
dead

1332
01:06:35,670 --> 01:06:34,319
yeah they're chopping at the bit for

1333
01:06:37,190 --> 01:06:35,680
this information they're they're they

1334
01:06:39,910 --> 01:06:37,200
really want to preserve this and

1335
01:06:40,950 --> 01:06:39,920
uh they see historical value as does jan

1336
01:06:42,710 --> 01:06:40,960
and myself

1337
01:06:44,549 --> 01:06:42,720
with regard to this information

1338
01:06:46,230 --> 01:06:44,559
regardless of your take on it and that's

1339
01:06:48,069 --> 01:06:46,240
how i pitched it to him whether you

1340
01:06:49,670 --> 01:06:48,079
relegate you know ufos to fact fiction

1341
01:06:51,109 --> 01:06:49,680
or folklore it's part of our history

1342
01:06:53,029 --> 01:06:51,119
it's part of our culture

1343
01:06:54,549 --> 01:06:53,039
and just by virtue of that we should be

1344
01:06:56,390 --> 01:06:54,559
preserving this material whether you're

1345
01:06:57,910 --> 01:06:56,400
a sociologist that wants to look back on

1346
01:06:58,710 --> 01:06:57,920
the 20th century and say it's a space

1347
01:07:01,430 --> 01:06:58,720
age myth

1348
01:07:03,270 --> 01:07:01,440
which i doubt um i agree with jan

1349
01:07:03,990 --> 01:07:03,280
there's just a preponderance of cases

1350
01:07:07,190 --> 01:07:04,000
that defy

1351
01:07:07,910 --> 01:07:07,200
conventional explanation and um you know

1352
01:07:11,029 --> 01:07:07,920
i

1353
01:07:12,950 --> 01:07:11,039
does the most

1354
01:07:15,109 --> 01:07:12,960
unscientific people that have approached

1355
01:07:17,750 --> 01:07:15,119
this subject historically with rare

1356
01:07:19,190 --> 01:07:17,760
exceptions are scientists

1357
01:07:21,270 --> 01:07:19,200
they're making assumptions they're

1358
01:07:24,549 --> 01:07:21,280
making proclamations based on no

1359
01:07:27,109 --> 01:07:24,559
evidence and i would task them what i

1360
01:07:29,670 --> 01:07:27,119
tasked myself and other ufo researchers

1361
01:07:31,109 --> 01:07:29,680
with and that is whatever we say

1362
01:07:34,309 --> 01:07:31,119
whatever we promote

1363
01:07:36,710 --> 01:07:34,319
or put forth as a working hypothesis

1364
01:07:38,309 --> 01:07:36,720
it has to be data driven you have to

1365
01:07:41,510 --> 01:07:38,319
back it up with something

1366
01:07:43,430 --> 01:07:41,520
and i i relegate the skeptics

1367
01:07:45,990 --> 01:07:43,440
just as much as i relegate the the the

1368
01:07:48,549 --> 01:07:46,000
arden wide-eyed ufo believers

1369
01:07:50,069 --> 01:07:48,559
when you accept everything without any

1370
01:07:51,990 --> 01:07:50,079
critical thinking skills

1371
01:07:53,270 --> 01:07:52,000
it's just as bad as those that refute

1372
01:07:54,630 --> 01:07:53,280
everything without taking the time to

1373
01:07:56,710 --> 01:07:54,640
look at the evidence

1374
01:07:58,789 --> 01:07:56,720
exactly right i relegate all of that to

1375
01:08:00,309 --> 01:07:58,799
what i call cognitive laziness

1376
01:08:01,829 --> 01:08:00,319
you're not using any brain cells in

1377
01:08:05,190 --> 01:08:01,839
either case

1378
01:08:06,950 --> 01:08:05,200
yeah and you know um what is that saying

1379
01:08:09,829 --> 01:08:06,960
never underestimate

1380
01:08:11,510 --> 01:08:09,839
um the power of i hate to use this word

1381
01:08:12,870 --> 01:08:11,520
but never underestimate the power of

1382
01:08:15,910 --> 01:08:12,880
stupid people

1383
01:08:17,910 --> 01:08:15,920
well i mean yeah

1384
01:08:21,110 --> 01:08:17,920
yeah not to put to find a point on it

1385
01:08:23,030 --> 01:08:21,120
but yes i think that that's good

1386
01:08:24,709 --> 01:08:23,040
you know i'm not looking at this as a

1387
01:08:26,709 --> 01:08:24,719
religion i'm not looking at this

1388
01:08:27,910 --> 01:08:26,719
as i'm finding evidence to support my

1389
01:08:31,749 --> 01:08:27,920
preconceived beliefs

1390
01:08:34,309 --> 01:08:31,759
belief system like jan would agree

1391
01:08:36,870 --> 01:08:34,319
the vast majority of ufo reports can be

1392
01:08:38,870 --> 01:08:36,880
discounted as venus as a satellite as a

1393
01:08:40,709 --> 01:08:38,880
jet aircraft you name it and many of

1394
01:08:41,590 --> 01:08:40,719
those have been proven false over the

1395
01:08:43,829 --> 01:08:41,600
years you know

1396
01:08:45,590 --> 01:08:43,839
especially as we realized that there was

1397
01:08:47,269 --> 01:08:45,600
military testing in certain areas at

1398
01:08:48,550 --> 01:08:47,279
certain times that you know when pilots

1399
01:08:50,070 --> 01:08:48,560
in the 50s said

1400
01:08:51,990 --> 01:08:50,080
we saw something but it was flying

1401
01:08:54,149 --> 01:08:52,000
faster and higher than any aircraft

1402
01:08:55,910 --> 01:08:54,159
we knew of well that's that's the the

1403
01:08:56,870 --> 01:08:55,920
operative phrase right there that they

1404
01:08:58,950 --> 01:08:56,880
knew of

1405
01:09:00,390 --> 01:08:58,960
uh they didn't know about the sr-71 they

1406
01:09:01,749 --> 01:09:00,400
didn't know about the u2 and in

1407
01:09:03,829 --> 01:09:01,759
retrospect

1408
01:09:05,430 --> 01:09:03,839
again which is why we have the value of

1409
01:09:07,349 --> 01:09:05,440
having these historic files

1410
01:09:09,430 --> 01:09:07,359
we can go back and maybe summarily

1411
01:09:11,669 --> 01:09:09,440
discount some of those reports

1412
01:09:14,070 --> 01:09:11,679
but to jan's earlier point there are

1413
01:09:15,829 --> 01:09:14,080
those that are extraordinary

1414
01:09:17,349 --> 01:09:15,839
there are those that have extreme high

1415
01:09:19,269 --> 01:09:17,359
strangeness

1416
01:09:20,870 --> 01:09:19,279
especially the radar visual cases and

1417
01:09:22,470 --> 01:09:20,880
there are a lot of those going back to

1418
01:09:25,749 --> 01:09:22,480
the 50s and 60s

1419
01:09:27,430 --> 01:09:25,759
to me that that is some severe

1420
01:09:28,789 --> 01:09:27,440
uh information that we're dealing with

1421
01:09:30,470 --> 01:09:28,799
when you have multiple military

1422
01:09:32,229 --> 01:09:30,480
witnesses both ground and air based and

1423
01:09:33,349 --> 01:09:32,239
you have ground and air based radar that

1424
01:09:37,189 --> 01:09:33,359
confirms it

1425
01:09:38,950 --> 01:09:37,199
um so yes there are so many cases that

1426
01:09:41,510 --> 01:09:38,960
have never been discussed publicly

1427
01:09:42,789 --> 01:09:41,520
and as jan was alluding to to me the

1428
01:09:44,630 --> 01:09:42,799
other day some of these

1429
01:09:46,229 --> 01:09:44,640
micro films that he's sending me and

1430
01:09:47,829 --> 01:09:46,239
i'll let him speak to that if he if he

1431
01:09:50,149 --> 01:09:47,839
likes a little bit but

1432
01:09:51,590 --> 01:09:50,159
some of these have never been digitized

1433
01:09:52,550 --> 01:09:51,600
they've never never been widely

1434
01:09:54,149 --> 01:09:52,560
circulated

1435
01:09:56,229 --> 01:09:54,159
and that's our shared goal is to try to

1436
01:09:56,630 --> 01:09:56,239
get this material digitized and shared

1437
01:09:59,830 --> 01:09:56,640
with

1438
01:10:02,070 --> 01:09:59,840
the ufo community at large now

1439
01:10:04,149 --> 01:10:02,080
jan let me ask you this because dave

1440
01:10:07,510 --> 01:10:04,159
just made a good point

1441
01:10:10,390 --> 01:10:07,520
when there's radar evidence and there's

1442
01:10:11,350 --> 01:10:10,400
actual visual evidence um i've brought

1443
01:10:13,910 --> 01:10:11,360
this thing up

1444
01:10:15,030 --> 01:10:13,920
for instance when i had seth shaw stack

1445
01:10:18,229 --> 01:10:15,040
who you mentioned

1446
01:10:20,630 --> 01:10:18,239
we sort of hinted to um on my show

1447
01:10:21,830 --> 01:10:20,640
i said what about that and they always

1448
01:10:24,390 --> 01:10:21,840
have an answer

1449
01:10:26,550 --> 01:10:24,400
oh well that's a weather anomaly or or

1450
01:10:28,470 --> 01:10:26,560
this or that you always hear

1451
01:10:30,790 --> 01:10:28,480
no matter you know for instance the

1452
01:10:31,910 --> 01:10:30,800
nimitz case they had all different types

1453
01:10:34,550 --> 01:10:31,920
of radar

1454
01:10:35,350 --> 01:10:34,560
data and uh discounting it all is you

1455
01:10:38,149 --> 01:10:35,360
know

1456
01:10:41,189 --> 01:10:38,159
this or that what do you say to people

1457
01:10:43,669 --> 01:10:41,199
like that when you hear that jen

1458
01:10:45,990 --> 01:10:43,679
well it's you know they never engage

1459
01:10:48,149 --> 01:10:46,000
with me that much

1460
01:10:49,189 --> 01:10:48,159
you know especially producers that put

1461
01:10:51,990 --> 01:10:49,199
together shows

1462
01:10:54,070 --> 01:10:52,000
they usually you know they don't tell

1463
01:10:55,830 --> 01:10:54,080
you who's going to be on with you

1464
01:10:57,750 --> 01:10:55,840
and who's going to be who's going to get

1465
01:11:00,310 --> 01:10:57,760
the last word

1466
01:11:01,110 --> 01:11:00,320
yeah i mean always changes on the

1467
01:11:03,750 --> 01:11:01,120
cutting room

1468
01:11:05,990 --> 01:11:03,760
i did i did two uh cases for the

1469
01:11:09,750 --> 01:11:06,000
smithsonian

1470
01:11:10,229 --> 01:11:09,760
and uh they had somebody that came on

1471
01:11:11,910 --> 01:11:10,239
and

1472
01:11:14,229 --> 01:11:11,920
you know knocked the heck out of what i

1473
01:11:17,590 --> 01:11:14,239
was saying but

1474
01:11:20,709 --> 01:11:17,600
uh and i i did the cases that

1475
01:11:22,630 --> 01:11:20,719
uh that the smithsonian wanted me to do

1476
01:11:25,350 --> 01:11:22,640
in other words what the producer did i

1477
01:11:28,470 --> 01:11:25,360
didn't necessarily do the best cases

1478
01:11:30,790 --> 01:11:28,480
like the incident of firing on a ufo in

1479
01:11:32,870 --> 01:11:30,800
the summer of 52 from

1480
01:11:34,229 --> 01:11:32,880
kirkland air force base that was one of

1481
01:11:36,870 --> 01:11:34,239
the cases i

1482
01:11:38,070 --> 01:11:36,880
i did and i'm talking about it and this

1483
01:11:39,990 --> 01:11:38,080
guy says

1484
01:11:41,270 --> 01:11:40,000
he's right reading it out of rupelt and

1485
01:11:44,790 --> 01:11:41,280
i said

1486
01:11:47,590 --> 01:11:44,800
said listen to me

1487
01:11:48,870 --> 01:11:47,600
i've got more data that's than root belt

1488
01:11:50,950 --> 01:11:48,880
had

1489
01:11:52,229 --> 01:11:50,960
i said i have talked to the intelligence

1490
01:11:54,950 --> 01:11:52,239
officer

1491
01:11:56,709 --> 01:11:54,960
in new mexico who is in charge of this

1492
01:12:00,550 --> 01:11:56,719
case

1493
01:12:04,470 --> 01:12:00,560
i have notes from dr

1494
01:12:08,550 --> 01:12:04,480
page who was at the the uh

1495
01:12:10,470 --> 01:12:08,560
robertson panel and uh

1496
01:12:11,590 --> 01:12:10,480
one of the things that it's interesting

1497
01:12:15,590 --> 01:12:11,600
one of the things that

1498
01:12:19,030 --> 01:12:15,600
uh alvarez who was on the

1499
01:12:21,910 --> 01:12:19,040
the dr alvarez is definitely uh

1500
01:12:23,350 --> 01:12:21,920
one of the top science radar scientist

1501
01:12:26,149 --> 01:12:23,360
ever

1502
01:12:27,669 --> 01:12:26,159
and his complaint about the data that he

1503
01:12:31,270 --> 01:12:27,679
was shown

1504
01:12:37,430 --> 01:12:31,280
at the robertson panel was i don't care

1505
01:12:39,830 --> 01:12:37,440
what the operator felt i don't care

1506
01:12:42,229 --> 01:12:39,840
you know if they said they've never seen

1507
01:12:43,990 --> 01:12:42,239
anything like this before

1508
01:12:47,990 --> 01:12:44,000
he said i've been in the development of

1509
01:12:51,750 --> 01:12:48,000
radar you've got to give me

1510
01:12:54,950 --> 01:12:51,760
quantitative and qualitative data

1511
01:12:58,950 --> 01:12:54,960
and i don't care about people's feelings

1512
01:13:02,550 --> 01:13:01,350
and with the minot case of course we

1513
01:13:06,950 --> 01:13:02,560
have that

1514
01:13:11,510 --> 01:13:06,960
and a number of others and uh

1515
01:13:14,229 --> 01:13:11,520
uh he was he was he was

1516
01:13:16,630 --> 01:13:14,239
i think he was wrong to say well we

1517
01:13:18,870 --> 01:13:16,640
should just go ahead and

1518
01:13:19,669 --> 01:13:18,880
brush all this stuff aside instead of

1519
01:13:22,709 --> 01:13:19,679
what we

1520
01:13:25,990 --> 01:13:22,719
to say we need more and better data

1521
01:13:30,950 --> 01:13:26,000
on ufos not we need to

1522
01:13:35,990 --> 01:13:33,910
right right dave do you mind hanging out

1523
01:13:37,910 --> 01:13:36,000
with us or do you have things to do

1524
01:13:39,110 --> 01:13:37,920
no i've got a few minutes if you want me

1525
01:13:41,830 --> 01:13:39,120
to hang on

1526
01:13:43,510 --> 01:13:41,840
yeah yeah um uh jan i'm just gonna keep

1527
01:13:45,110 --> 01:13:43,520
uh dave on for a few minutes but

1528
01:13:47,189 --> 01:13:45,120
while you're here dave i have to ask you

1529
01:13:47,590 --> 01:13:47,199
this question um because i know a lot of

1530
01:13:49,669 --> 01:13:47,600
people

1531
01:13:50,790 --> 01:13:49,679
visit you and want to look at your uh

1532
01:13:52,390 --> 01:13:50,800
your files and stuff

1533
01:13:55,189 --> 01:13:52,400
what's the number one thing people want

1534
01:13:57,910 --> 01:13:55,199
to see when they when they come there

1535
01:13:58,310 --> 01:13:57,920
as well it varies considerably and and

1536
01:14:00,390 --> 01:13:58,320
that's

1537
01:14:01,830 --> 01:14:00,400
uh i was just mentioning to someone the

1538
01:14:04,390 --> 01:14:01,840
other day on the phone that uh

1539
01:14:05,110 --> 01:14:04,400
whenever i acquire material regardless

1540
01:14:07,189 --> 01:14:05,120
of my

1541
01:14:10,229 --> 01:14:07,199
like or dislike of it for example let's

1542
01:14:13,270 --> 01:14:10,239
say like 50s contact d material

1543
01:14:15,590 --> 01:14:13,280
i collect it because i don't know

1544
01:14:17,110 --> 01:14:15,600
to your question what someone's going to

1545
01:14:17,830 --> 01:14:17,120
be interested in researching when they

1546
01:14:19,350 --> 01:14:17,840
come here

1547
01:14:21,270 --> 01:14:19,360
uh now certainly they'll contact me

1548
01:14:23,030 --> 01:14:21,280
ahead of time and say i'm working on

1549
01:14:24,149 --> 01:14:23,040
this do you have anything yes you know

1550
01:14:27,030 --> 01:14:24,159
come on by

1551
01:14:27,990 --> 01:14:27,040
but i i will tell you it's it's usually

1552
01:14:30,070 --> 01:14:28,000
what they come away with

1553
01:14:31,590 --> 01:14:30,080
is not what they came here to look for

1554
01:14:34,950 --> 01:14:31,600
because when they walk through the door

1555
01:14:37,750 --> 01:14:34,960
and they see the volume of material it's

1556
01:14:39,189 --> 01:14:37,760
a deer in the headlights and inevitably

1557
01:14:40,870 --> 01:14:39,199
they get distracted they think that they

1558
01:14:42,709 --> 01:14:40,880
want to look at this over here

1559
01:14:44,630 --> 01:14:42,719
but then this file cabinet or this

1560
01:14:46,709 --> 01:14:44,640
collection of case files totally

1561
01:14:47,910 --> 01:14:46,719
captivates them and they wind up taking

1562
01:14:49,270 --> 01:14:47,920
their entire weekend

1563
01:14:51,750 --> 01:14:49,280
going through all that and they didn't

1564
01:14:53,030 --> 01:14:51,760
even touch on this and inevitably people

1565
01:14:53,750 --> 01:14:53,040
say well i'm going to have to schedule

1566
01:14:55,189 --> 01:14:53,760
another visit

1567
01:14:56,790 --> 01:14:55,199
in fact i've got a researcher from

1568
01:14:58,470 --> 01:14:56,800
colorado we're waiting for kova to get

1569
01:14:59,189 --> 01:14:58,480
behind us and he plans on making another

1570
01:15:01,430 --> 01:14:59,199
trip

1571
01:15:02,310 --> 01:15:01,440
i also have i will mention this uh just

1572
01:15:05,430 --> 01:15:02,320
to give you an idea

1573
01:15:06,709 --> 01:15:05,440
the variety of requests uh right when

1574
01:15:09,030 --> 01:15:06,719
cobit hit

1575
01:15:11,189 --> 01:15:09,040
right around march i was contacted by a

1576
01:15:12,709 --> 01:15:11,199
phd researcher out of california

1577
01:15:15,030 --> 01:15:12,719
and i think i told jan this the other

1578
01:15:17,270 --> 01:15:15,040
day um he is interested

1579
01:15:19,590 --> 01:15:17,280
in any type of material pertaining to

1580
01:15:22,709 --> 01:15:19,600
scientists in the 1950s

1581
01:15:25,430 --> 01:15:22,719
that were researching ufos and

1582
01:15:26,950 --> 01:15:25,440
i responded by saying well you would be

1583
01:15:28,550 --> 01:15:26,960
interested in seeing the dr leon

1584
01:15:30,310 --> 01:15:28,560
davidson material i said i have his

1585
01:15:32,550 --> 01:15:30,320
correspondence collection

1586
01:15:34,310 --> 01:15:32,560
and his voice went up several octaves he

1587
01:15:36,390 --> 01:15:34,320
goes what he goes you're kidding me

1588
01:15:38,310 --> 01:15:36,400
he goes well he goes you know that

1589
01:15:39,669 --> 01:15:38,320
columbia university has his collection

1590
01:15:41,110 --> 01:15:39,679
in new york i said yeah

1591
01:15:43,590 --> 01:15:41,120
i said that they have their holdings

1592
01:15:45,189 --> 01:15:43,600
listed online he goes well he goes

1593
01:15:46,709 --> 01:15:45,199
i contacted them and he goes to my

1594
01:15:48,390 --> 01:15:46,719
surprise they didn't have any of his

1595
01:15:49,910 --> 01:15:48,400
correspondence i said no they have the

1596
01:15:51,990 --> 01:15:49,920
books the journals and things of that

1597
01:15:53,750 --> 01:15:52,000
nature which i already have here

1598
01:15:55,510 --> 01:15:53,760
i said but i was contacted through a

1599
01:15:57,830 --> 01:15:55,520
friend of a friend about two

1600
01:15:58,709 --> 01:15:57,840
and two and a half years ago now i guess

1601
01:16:00,550 --> 01:15:58,719
and

1602
01:16:01,990 --> 01:16:00,560
a self-proclaimed dumpster diver out of

1603
01:16:03,990 --> 01:16:02,000
new york was

1604
01:16:05,750 --> 01:16:04,000
pulling this historic material out of a

1605
01:16:06,950 --> 01:16:05,760
trash dumpster because the family was

1606
01:16:08,790 --> 01:16:06,960
throwing it away

1607
01:16:10,229 --> 01:16:08,800
and jan had the opportunity jan was out

1608
01:16:11,510 --> 01:16:10,239
here about a year and a half ago and he

1609
01:16:12,470 --> 01:16:11,520
had a chance to go through some of that

1610
01:16:14,550 --> 01:16:12,480
material

1611
01:16:16,390 --> 01:16:14,560
but we have correspondence with kenneth

1612
01:16:18,830 --> 01:16:16,400
arnold we have correspondents with a lot

1613
01:16:20,630 --> 01:16:18,840
of the early ufo researchers from the

1614
01:16:22,470 --> 01:16:20,640
1950s there's even

1615
01:16:24,790 --> 01:16:22,480
signed letters from j edgar hoover and

1616
01:16:27,750 --> 01:16:24,800
lyndon johnson when he was a senator

1617
01:16:29,270 --> 01:16:27,760
on a senate subcommittee and lots of

1618
01:16:31,510 --> 01:16:29,280
foreign correspondents so

1619
01:16:32,630 --> 01:16:31,520
this researcher he was just completely

1620
01:16:34,229 --> 01:16:32,640
blown away he goes

1621
01:16:36,390 --> 01:16:34,239
that's exactly what i was looking for

1622
01:16:37,990 --> 01:16:36,400
was his original correspondence i said

1623
01:16:39,430 --> 01:16:38,000
well it's here and so we're waiting for

1624
01:16:41,430 --> 01:16:39,440
kova to finish up and he'll probably be

1625
01:16:44,790 --> 01:16:41,440
one of the first researchers out here

1626
01:16:46,709 --> 01:16:44,800
but i never know what subject matter

1627
01:16:48,070 --> 01:16:46,719
they're looking for or what their thesis

1628
01:16:51,030 --> 01:16:48,080
is you know are they are they here

1629
01:16:52,870 --> 01:16:51,040
to poo poo the ufo subject or are they

1630
01:16:54,709 --> 01:16:52,880
here as a ufo proponent because they

1631
01:16:56,709 --> 01:16:54,719
believe in the reality of it

1632
01:16:58,229 --> 01:16:56,719
and uh again i think i'd mention this to

1633
01:16:59,910 --> 01:16:58,239
jan the other day or one of the other

1634
01:17:02,630 --> 01:16:59,920
researchers i was talking to

1635
01:17:04,310 --> 01:17:02,640
i view this collection as a true library

1636
01:17:05,669 --> 01:17:04,320
when you go into a library martin they

1637
01:17:07,189 --> 01:17:05,679
don't ask you well why do you want that

1638
01:17:07,750 --> 01:17:07,199
information in world war ii are you a

1639
01:17:10,470 --> 01:17:07,760
nazi

1640
01:17:11,189 --> 01:17:10,480
sympathizer or are you an anti-holocaust

1641
01:17:12,709 --> 01:17:11,199
person

1642
01:17:14,470 --> 01:17:12,719
they don't ask you those questions it's

1643
01:17:16,870 --> 01:17:14,480
like you're interested in world war ii

1644
01:17:18,470 --> 01:17:16,880
here's our holdings and even if a

1645
01:17:19,669 --> 01:17:18,480
skeptic wanted to contact me and go

1646
01:17:22,310 --> 01:17:19,679
through my material

1647
01:17:23,110 --> 01:17:22,320
i i would i would respect that i'm not

1648
01:17:26,390 --> 01:17:23,120
here

1649
01:17:28,470 --> 01:17:26,400
to censor any researcher regardless of

1650
01:17:30,470 --> 01:17:28,480
their their take on the subject matter

1651
01:17:31,910 --> 01:17:30,480
it's just simply providing the material

1652
01:17:33,030 --> 01:17:31,920
to those that are interested in looking

1653
01:17:35,430 --> 01:17:33,040
at it

1654
01:17:37,030 --> 01:17:35,440
well i wonder if you could put a number

1655
01:17:41,669 --> 01:17:37,040
on the hours you have

1656
01:17:43,270 --> 01:17:41,679
on organizing alone oh well god well

1657
01:17:44,709 --> 01:17:43,280
i've done a lot let's just say that much

1658
01:17:46,070 --> 01:17:44,719
but i'll let jan speak to that because i

1659
01:17:47,430 --> 01:17:46,080
think jan was not only impressed with

1660
01:17:48,310 --> 01:17:47,440
the amount of material even though it

1661
01:17:50,310 --> 01:17:48,320
doesn't even come

1662
01:17:53,350 --> 01:17:50,320
come close to what he has but i think

1663
01:17:55,030 --> 01:17:53,360
jan appreciated my sense of organization

1664
01:17:56,870 --> 01:17:55,040
well he mentioned earlier that he has

1665
01:17:57,350 --> 01:17:56,880
stuff all over his desk and all over the

1666
01:17:59,430 --> 01:17:57,360
place

1667
01:18:00,790 --> 01:17:59,440
but i but you know what i bet he knows

1668
01:18:02,709 --> 01:18:00,800
where everything is

1669
01:18:06,149 --> 01:18:02,719
well i always say when it comes to ufos

1670
01:18:09,990 --> 01:18:08,709
uh dave thank you so much i'm so glad

1671
01:18:11,750 --> 01:18:10,000
you were able to join us

1672
01:18:13,590 --> 01:18:11,760
absolutely it's great and i'm glad you

1673
01:18:15,669 --> 01:18:13,600
have jan on tonight because he's really

1674
01:18:16,390 --> 01:18:15,679
one of the unsung heroes in ufology

1675
01:18:19,110 --> 01:18:16,400
there's

1676
01:18:21,030 --> 01:18:19,120
a lot of uh loud voices out there in the

1677
01:18:22,390 --> 01:18:21,040
field but uh when it comes to the

1678
01:18:25,030 --> 01:18:22,400
quality the history

1679
01:18:27,110 --> 01:18:25,040
the lineage and uh you know the

1680
01:18:28,950 --> 01:18:27,120
tradition that he's created i mean jan

1681
01:18:31,350 --> 01:18:28,960
jan was a role model role model for

1682
01:18:32,950 --> 01:18:31,360
myself in looking at the history and

1683
01:18:34,550 --> 01:18:32,960
i'm learning a lot from him you know as

1684
01:18:35,990 --> 01:18:34,560
we continue to collaborate and

1685
01:18:38,149 --> 01:18:36,000
hopefully we'll continue to collaborate

1686
01:18:39,750 --> 01:18:38,159
as we look into 2021

1687
01:18:41,189 --> 01:18:39,760
just one more question dave before you

1688
01:18:44,310 --> 01:18:41,199
go um

1689
01:18:47,910 --> 01:18:44,320
do you see anyone coming up that

1690
01:18:50,870 --> 01:18:47,920
um may have a similar

1691
01:18:51,430 --> 01:18:50,880
you know uh energy to do what you're

1692
01:18:54,470 --> 01:18:51,440
doing

1693
01:18:57,750 --> 01:18:54,480
is there anyone else coming in the field

1694
01:19:00,070 --> 01:18:57,760
you and jan what you're both doing

1695
01:19:01,510 --> 01:19:00,080
i don't know of anyone younger than me

1696
01:19:03,030 --> 01:19:01,520
and more people are younger

1697
01:19:05,270 --> 01:19:03,040
than me than older than me as i get

1698
01:19:07,830 --> 01:19:05,280
older

1699
01:19:08,790 --> 01:19:07,840
i think we can all say that i i don't

1700
01:19:11,030 --> 01:19:08,800
see anyone

1701
01:19:11,990 --> 01:19:11,040
doing it with the let's say the level of

1702
01:19:13,510 --> 01:19:12,000
commitment

1703
01:19:16,070 --> 01:19:13,520
uh certainly there are people out there

1704
01:19:18,070 --> 01:19:16,080
that are researching i i don't know if

1705
01:19:18,550 --> 01:19:18,080
it's to the degree that that i'm doing

1706
01:19:20,470 --> 01:19:18,560
it

1707
01:19:22,149 --> 01:19:20,480
and i would say i'm certainly not doing

1708
01:19:23,350 --> 01:19:22,159
it to the degree that jan has over the

1709
01:19:25,350 --> 01:19:23,360
years i mean he

1710
01:19:27,590 --> 01:19:25,360
has been like a pit bull when it comes

1711
01:19:29,430 --> 01:19:27,600
to gathering this information

1712
01:19:31,350 --> 01:19:29,440
and piecing together the history of

1713
01:19:33,669 --> 01:19:31,360
ufology

1714
01:19:35,030 --> 01:19:33,679
wow amazing well i sure hope to make it

1715
01:19:37,270 --> 01:19:35,040
out there someday

1716
01:19:38,310 --> 01:19:37,280
it'd be uh great to see you and actually

1717
01:19:39,669 --> 01:19:38,320
to see everything

1718
01:19:41,910 --> 01:19:39,679
but you know how i am about like

1719
01:19:43,510 --> 01:19:41,920
antiques and art and vintage and oh boy

1720
01:19:45,350 --> 01:19:43,520
i'm going to have trouble leaving well

1721
01:19:47,350 --> 01:19:45,360
are you filtering charles the other day

1722
01:19:49,430 --> 01:19:47,360
i told you we had a conversation

1723
01:19:51,030 --> 01:19:49,440
yeah we're conspiring to get you out

1724
01:19:53,990 --> 01:19:51,040
here one way or the other

1725
01:19:55,189 --> 01:19:54,000
well i hope it happens all right dave

1726
01:19:59,110 --> 01:19:55,199
will you take care

1727
01:20:01,430 --> 01:19:59,120
absolutely thank you all right bye now

1728
01:20:02,550 --> 01:20:01,440
uh uh jan that was great to have him in

1729
01:20:04,709 --> 01:20:02,560
here um

1730
01:20:06,870 --> 01:20:04,719
and i'm glad you are working with uh

1731
01:20:10,950 --> 01:20:06,880
dave wonderful person

1732
01:20:14,470 --> 01:20:10,960
um when we left know that uh

1733
01:20:19,030 --> 01:20:17,590
okay i hope he's still listening and he

1734
01:20:21,830 --> 01:20:19,040
heard that

1735
01:20:22,310 --> 01:20:21,840
i think when we went when we went into

1736
01:20:24,390 --> 01:20:22,320
break

1737
01:20:26,229 --> 01:20:24,400
um you were you were i think you i

1738
01:20:28,310 --> 01:20:26,239
believe you said

1739
01:20:29,830 --> 01:20:28,320
something along the lines that the

1740
01:20:32,310 --> 01:20:29,840
germans had no idea

1741
01:20:36,229 --> 01:20:32,320
what these were is that what you said or

1742
01:20:45,510 --> 01:20:39,910
omar had talked to german scientists

1743
01:20:49,510 --> 01:20:48,149
uh all kinds of people and uh of course

1744
01:20:53,750 --> 01:20:49,520
there's the big thing about

1745
01:20:56,950 --> 01:20:53,760
uh you know nazi

1746
01:20:57,270 --> 01:20:56,960
super science and everything uh general

1747
01:21:00,950 --> 01:20:57,280
putt

1748
01:21:06,790 --> 01:21:00,960
who was uh top intelligence

1749
01:21:12,070 --> 01:21:10,149
to the uh colonel mccoy out there at the

1750
01:21:15,430 --> 01:21:12,080
right field and he said

1751
01:21:15,669 --> 01:21:15,440
listen these guys were 10 years ahead of

1752
01:21:18,870 --> 01:21:15,679
us

1753
01:21:20,470 --> 01:21:18,880
on paper but no

1754
01:21:22,550 --> 01:21:20,480
they weren't they were they weren't they

1755
01:21:25,350 --> 01:21:22,560
weren't supermen and and

1756
01:21:27,110 --> 01:21:25,360
they had managed to drive all the uh

1757
01:21:31,189 --> 01:21:27,120
scientists

1758
01:21:35,750 --> 01:21:31,199
away i mean physics was considered a

1759
01:21:38,709 --> 01:21:35,760
jewish science and uh

1760
01:21:39,270 --> 01:21:38,719
it it amazes me that people are saying

1761
01:21:42,950 --> 01:21:39,280
well

1762
01:21:46,870 --> 01:21:42,960
these guys were so smart and they

1763
01:21:49,910 --> 01:21:46,880
they they made they actually

1764
01:21:52,310 --> 01:21:49,920
contacted ufo beings

1765
01:21:53,030 --> 01:21:52,320
and they had special all kinds of

1766
01:21:57,910 --> 01:21:53,040
special

1767
01:22:01,750 --> 01:21:57,920
stuff that they did quite frankly

1768
01:22:06,310 --> 01:22:01,760
it's it's just a romanticized thing

1769
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:09,910
make the nazis uh

1770
01:22:13,669 --> 01:22:12,070
into some kind of heroes or things like

1771
01:22:14,310 --> 01:22:13,679
that there's still people that think

1772
01:22:18,229 --> 01:22:14,320
that

1773
01:22:20,550 --> 01:22:18,239
wonderful people

1774
01:22:24,470 --> 01:22:20,560
the guys that go around carrying nazi

1775
01:22:26,709 --> 01:22:24,480
flags at the demonstrations and stuff

1776
01:22:29,350 --> 01:22:26,719
but there's there's plenty of people

1777
01:22:30,550 --> 01:22:29,360
that seem to think the nazi myth in

1778
01:22:33,590 --> 01:22:30,560
ufology is

1779
01:22:35,910 --> 01:22:33,600
true um

1780
01:22:37,990 --> 01:22:35,920
they were they if you go to right field

1781
01:22:41,669 --> 01:22:38,000
you can see

1782
01:22:42,149 --> 01:22:41,679
a lot of the aircraft that were brought

1783
01:22:45,830 --> 01:22:42,159
back

1784
01:22:52,870 --> 01:22:49,030
by colonel

1785
01:22:57,990 --> 01:22:52,880
seashore yeah uh it was called project

1786
01:23:06,310 --> 01:23:01,830
seahorse seahorse colonel seashore

1787
01:23:09,430 --> 01:23:06,320
was the guy that organized um

1788
01:23:10,470 --> 01:23:09,440
uh all the aircraft that had been picked

1789
01:23:15,910 --> 01:23:10,480
up in germany

1790
01:23:19,990 --> 01:23:15,920
by uh uh colonel later general uh

1791
01:23:23,350 --> 01:23:20,000
uh harold watson uh watson's wizards

1792
01:23:26,310 --> 01:23:23,360
they were flying aircraft that you know

1793
01:23:28,229 --> 01:23:26,320
probably weren't airworthy and they flew

1794
01:23:31,030 --> 01:23:28,239
you know as they captured them they flew

1795
01:23:32,390 --> 01:23:31,040
into into france and finally to

1796
01:23:34,070 --> 01:23:32,400
marseilles and

1797
01:23:35,590 --> 01:23:34,080
they're put on a british aircraft

1798
01:23:36,310 --> 01:23:35,600
carrier and taken back to the united

1799
01:23:40,310 --> 01:23:36,320
states

1800
01:23:42,070 --> 01:23:40,320
a lot of them are at uh right field if

1801
01:23:42,470 --> 01:23:42,080
you go to a museum there you can see

1802
01:23:47,590 --> 01:23:42,480
them

1803
01:23:50,790 --> 01:23:50,390
but they weren't they were they they

1804
01:23:55,830 --> 01:23:50,800
were

1805
01:24:00,830 --> 01:23:55,840
necessarily further ahead

1806
01:24:07,030 --> 01:24:03,830
um the russians also had a group of

1807
01:24:13,350 --> 01:24:11,590
grid they were real smart but stalin put

1808
01:24:16,709 --> 01:24:13,360
them all in

1809
01:24:18,629 --> 01:24:16,719
the gulag for years so they lost their

1810
01:24:21,830 --> 01:24:18,639
advantage

1811
01:24:22,470 --> 01:24:21,840
uh so there's uh you know there's things

1812
01:24:25,910 --> 01:24:22,480
like that

1813
01:24:28,950 --> 01:24:25,920
um and i i hate to i hate to

1814
01:24:31,590 --> 01:24:28,960
get into the the nazi uh

1815
01:24:32,070 --> 01:24:31,600
is very popular in ufology the nazi myth

1816
01:24:35,030 --> 01:24:32,080
that they

1817
01:24:37,300 --> 01:24:35,040
somehow had some kind of secret base in

1818
01:24:39,510 --> 01:24:37,310
antarctica

1819
01:24:42,830 --> 01:24:39,520
[Music]

1820
01:24:45,189 --> 01:24:42,840
it's glorification of uh really bad

1821
01:24:48,870 --> 01:24:45,199
people

1822
01:24:55,189 --> 01:24:52,310
right yeah um and and i think in the

1823
01:24:58,629 --> 01:24:55,199
recent years someone's saying now russia

1824
01:25:01,750 --> 01:24:58,639
has a base up there too uh

1825
01:25:03,350 --> 01:25:01,760
i don't know it's crazy but yeah there's

1826
01:25:06,390 --> 01:25:03,360
there is a lot there's

1827
01:25:10,229 --> 01:25:06,400
uh unbelievable

1828
01:25:13,189 --> 01:25:10,239
uh without any proof

1829
01:25:13,830 --> 01:25:13,199
you can't nobody can offer any proof

1830
01:25:16,229 --> 01:25:13,840
that

1831
01:25:17,910 --> 01:25:16,239
any of this happened yeah the russians

1832
01:25:21,669 --> 01:25:17,920
explored antarctica

1833
01:25:26,950 --> 01:25:21,679
in the in the 30s with one ship

1834
01:25:30,709 --> 01:25:26,960
they did not spend a colony down there

1835
01:25:34,229 --> 01:25:30,719
somebody had a game about i think is in

1836
01:25:35,910 --> 01:25:34,239
south america about russian uh excuse me

1837
01:25:41,189 --> 01:25:35,920
nazi uh

1838
01:25:44,390 --> 01:25:41,199
um nazi colonies in antarctica it was

1839
01:25:47,350 --> 01:25:44,400
it was like a game and

1840
01:25:48,070 --> 01:25:47,360
people in the united states they've

1841
01:25:51,110 --> 01:25:48,080
taken this

1842
01:25:52,709 --> 01:25:51,120
stuff seriously it's it's hard to it's

1843
01:25:55,189 --> 01:25:52,719
hard to swallow

1844
01:25:56,629 --> 01:25:55,199
and uh you know i i have a degree in

1845
01:26:00,149 --> 01:25:56,639
history and i

1846
01:26:03,430 --> 01:26:00,159
i spent seven years and well

1847
01:26:07,590 --> 01:26:03,440
almost eight years in europe a good part

1848
01:26:09,830 --> 01:26:07,600
in germany i did talk to people over in

1849
01:26:11,590 --> 01:26:09,840
germany

1850
01:26:14,390 --> 01:26:11,600
no i'm there i have a lot of problem

1851
01:26:16,390 --> 01:26:14,400
with that kind of thing

1852
01:26:17,990 --> 01:26:16,400
yeah um you know i mean there's a lot of

1853
01:26:19,110 --> 01:26:18,000
questions that i'd like to ask you about

1854
01:26:21,430 --> 01:26:19,120
the myths

1855
01:26:23,350 --> 01:26:21,440
that you hear about over the years but

1856
01:26:26,550 --> 01:26:23,360
uh right now we have a

1857
01:26:29,990 --> 01:26:26,560
a question that popped up did anyone see

1858
01:26:32,629 --> 01:26:30,000
any um during world war ii it was just

1859
01:26:35,189 --> 01:26:32,639
the crafts or whatever they were

1860
01:26:37,590 --> 01:26:35,199
themselves they didn't see any like

1861
01:26:42,070 --> 01:26:37,600
beings or anything like that right

1862
01:26:42,470 --> 01:26:42,080
there's let me put it like this there

1863
01:26:47,910 --> 01:26:42,480
are

1864
01:26:50,390 --> 01:26:47,920
after the war

1865
01:26:51,350 --> 01:26:50,400
uh there's one in england i think

1866
01:26:56,149 --> 01:26:51,360
there's one from

1867
01:26:58,950 --> 01:26:56,159
uh new zealand um of of people that

1868
01:27:00,390 --> 01:26:58,960
you know encountered supposed occupants

1869
01:27:06,920 --> 01:27:00,400
from ufos

1870
01:27:06,930 --> 01:27:10,550
[Music]

1871
01:27:15,510 --> 01:27:13,110
if you go into uh some of the eastern

1872
01:27:19,110 --> 01:27:15,520
european literature now

1873
01:27:19,750 --> 01:27:19,120
once the east became free all kinds of

1874
01:27:22,870 --> 01:27:19,760
stories

1875
01:27:26,310 --> 01:27:22,880
came out i've got one here

1876
01:27:29,669 --> 01:27:26,320
is uh ufos over poland

1877
01:27:33,110 --> 01:27:29,679
the land of high strangeness and

1878
01:27:36,629 --> 01:27:33,120
they talk about uh early in the war

1879
01:27:39,830 --> 01:27:36,639
a uh an occupant case

1880
01:27:41,990 --> 01:27:39,840
so yeah these

1881
01:27:43,990 --> 01:27:42,000
we've encountered those now these are

1882
01:27:47,830 --> 01:27:44,000
these are even harder to nail down

1883
01:27:50,390 --> 01:27:47,840
because most of the people that

1884
01:27:53,510 --> 01:27:50,400
sought are dead and you know they were

1885
01:27:56,229 --> 01:27:53,520
under communism for so long

1886
01:27:56,550 --> 01:27:56,239
these almost became legend type things

1887
01:27:59,950 --> 01:27:56,560
that

1888
01:28:01,830 --> 01:27:59,960
got passed around

1889
01:28:04,149 --> 01:28:01,840
[Music]

1890
01:28:05,189 --> 01:28:04,159
couldn't really talk to him talk about

1891
01:28:07,030 --> 01:28:05,199
them but there are

1892
01:28:09,510 --> 01:28:07,040
i mean you know there are cases in the

1893
01:28:12,709 --> 01:28:09,520
u.s too

1894
01:28:15,830 --> 01:28:12,719
uh uh-huh uh gordon moore and

1895
01:28:20,070 --> 01:28:15,840
harold bernault's uh ufos in perspective

1896
01:28:27,990 --> 01:28:24,629
even pre-world war ii occupant cases

1897
01:28:32,629 --> 01:28:28,000
really wow it's like a world war two

1898
01:28:35,189 --> 01:28:32,639
so i mean when i started doing 1947

1899
01:28:37,270 --> 01:28:35,199
project 1947

1900
01:28:38,870 --> 01:28:37,280
people would tell me all the time well

1901
01:28:41,990 --> 01:28:38,880
uh 1947

1902
01:28:45,669 --> 01:28:42,000
that the ufos had a distance that's you

1903
01:28:49,189 --> 01:28:45,679
know just really at the

1904
01:28:53,590 --> 01:28:49,199
outer range of vision i said no

1905
01:28:54,149 --> 01:28:53,600
you're wrong my research shows that

1906
01:28:56,870 --> 01:28:54,159
almost

1907
01:28:59,550 --> 01:28:56,880
everything that is happening today

1908
01:29:03,430 --> 01:28:59,560
happened in 1947.

1909
01:29:04,070 --> 01:29:03,440
electromagnetic cases yep physiological

1910
01:29:07,030 --> 01:29:04,080
cases

1911
01:29:08,229 --> 01:29:07,040
people being affected by being close to

1912
01:29:11,990 --> 01:29:08,239
a ufo

1913
01:29:19,669 --> 01:29:16,629
uh real close approaches of uh aircraft

1914
01:29:22,550 --> 01:29:19,679
so it's not everybody's got this

1915
01:29:22,950 --> 01:29:22,560
idea they already know everything and

1916
01:29:26,550 --> 01:29:22,960
you

1917
01:29:32,870 --> 01:29:30,470
and especially uh ufo history is

1918
01:29:33,830 --> 01:29:32,880
is boring to most people now they don't

1919
01:29:37,750 --> 01:29:33,840
they don't want to read

1920
01:29:39,510 --> 01:29:37,760
root belt it's you know it's pass a

1921
01:29:40,870 --> 01:29:39,520
i i tell them the two books they should

1922
01:29:43,669 --> 01:29:40,880
have because they're real

1923
01:29:46,149 --> 01:29:43,679
cheap is a copy of report on

1924
01:29:49,910 --> 01:29:46,159
unidentified flying objects

1925
01:29:53,110 --> 01:29:49,920
and ufo evidence number one

1926
01:29:59,110 --> 01:29:53,120
because that thing is it's

1927
01:30:04,390 --> 01:30:02,629
over the years it's it's proved to be uh

1928
01:30:06,709 --> 01:30:04,400
a fairly good assessment of what

1929
01:30:07,110 --> 01:30:06,719
happened what was happening in the 50s

1930
01:30:20,870 --> 01:30:07,120
and

1931
01:30:22,149 --> 01:30:20,880
root belts booking paperback for 50

1932
01:30:24,470 --> 01:30:22,159
cents so

1933
01:30:25,590 --> 01:30:24,480
and those are kind of good places to

1934
01:30:30,310 --> 01:30:25,600
start

1935
01:30:32,149 --> 01:30:30,320
and just walk out from there

1936
01:30:34,790 --> 01:30:32,159
yeah you want to know about history you

1937
01:30:38,149 --> 01:30:34,800
have to read something like that

1938
01:30:41,270 --> 01:30:38,159
yeah that's true you had mentioned

1939
01:30:44,550 --> 01:30:41,280
the robertson panel earlier on

1940
01:30:46,950 --> 01:30:44,560
and i know um in your work there's

1941
01:30:49,110 --> 01:30:46,960
some new light on the robertson panel

1942
01:30:52,550 --> 01:30:49,120
can you share that with us

1943
01:30:55,270 --> 01:30:52,560
well one thing everybody's confused

1944
01:31:00,550 --> 01:30:55,280
about what actually the robertson panel

1945
01:31:04,550 --> 01:31:02,390
part of what they signed was a

1946
01:31:07,990 --> 01:31:04,560
recommendation

1947
01:31:10,229 --> 01:31:08,000
that ufos be debunked

1948
01:31:13,189 --> 01:31:10,239
it was not an order it was a

1949
01:31:24,629 --> 01:31:17,830
and it went from the cia

1950
01:31:32,070 --> 01:31:28,830
intelligence agency

1951
01:31:35,750 --> 01:31:32,080
agencies committee

1952
01:31:39,350 --> 01:31:35,760
the iac it went from there to

1953
01:31:40,550 --> 01:31:39,360
department of defense and then it went

1954
01:31:44,149 --> 01:31:40,560
to the air force now

1955
01:31:46,709 --> 01:31:44,159
each level that

1956
01:31:47,990 --> 01:31:46,719
uh transmitted the recommendations from

1957
01:31:51,030 --> 01:31:48,000
the robertson panel

1958
01:31:54,390 --> 01:31:51,040
said the next

1959
01:31:56,870 --> 01:31:54,400
organization that they sent it to

1960
01:31:58,870 --> 01:31:56,880
these may be this may be of interest to

1961
01:32:02,149 --> 01:31:58,880
you in other words they did not say

1962
01:32:04,870 --> 01:32:02,159
you will do this they said

1963
01:32:06,950 --> 01:32:04,880
this may be of interest to you it got to

1964
01:32:07,510 --> 01:32:06,960
general stanford in the air force who

1965
01:32:10,790 --> 01:32:07,520
was head of

1966
01:32:12,149 --> 01:32:10,800
intelligence for the air force and he's

1967
01:32:15,430 --> 01:32:12,159
the one

1968
01:32:18,149 --> 01:32:15,440
he says he said in one of his memos

1969
01:32:20,470 --> 01:32:18,159
to uh general garland come and see me we

1970
01:32:23,830 --> 01:32:20,480
were going to talk about this report

1971
01:32:24,709 --> 01:32:23,840
he's the one that pretty well it looks

1972
01:32:27,830 --> 01:32:24,719
like

1973
01:32:29,030 --> 01:32:27,840
he's the one that took those

1974
01:32:32,070 --> 01:32:29,040
recommendations

1975
01:32:35,430 --> 01:32:32,080
and ran with them

1976
01:32:37,350 --> 01:32:35,440
so everybody's got this little uh

1977
01:32:38,830 --> 01:32:37,360
historical thing that says oh the

1978
01:32:43,030 --> 01:32:38,840
robertson panel

1979
01:32:46,709 --> 01:32:43,040
demand ordered that this happened no

1980
01:32:51,590 --> 01:32:46,719
no decision was made at air force level

1981
01:32:55,030 --> 01:32:51,600
looks like and

1982
01:32:58,470 --> 01:32:55,040
so it's it once again

1983
01:33:00,550 --> 01:32:58,480
it's you've got to do research

1984
01:33:02,229 --> 01:33:00,560
you've got to do research and find it

1985
01:33:04,950 --> 01:33:02,239
find these things

1986
01:33:06,470 --> 01:33:04,960
it's very nice to say oh this happened

1987
01:33:08,790 --> 01:33:06,480
this is the way it happened it didn't

1988
01:33:11,990 --> 01:33:08,800
happen that way

1989
01:33:15,830 --> 01:33:12,000
um well let me ask you this uh jen

1990
01:33:17,590 --> 01:33:15,840
when today um you know the internet can

1991
01:33:20,470 --> 01:33:17,600
be a double-edged sword

1992
01:33:21,270 --> 01:33:20,480
you might find information that you'd

1993
01:33:23,750 --> 01:33:21,280
never find

1994
01:33:25,510 --> 01:33:23,760
any other way but you might find false

1995
01:33:27,750 --> 01:33:25,520
information too how do you

1996
01:33:31,990 --> 01:33:27,760
like sort through that if you're really

1997
01:33:37,540 --> 01:33:33,750
well some of it i mean you know you just

1998
01:33:39,669 --> 01:33:37,550
have to

1999
01:33:42,950 --> 01:33:39,679
[Music]

2000
01:33:48,229 --> 01:33:42,960
it's hard to sort through this stuff now

2001
01:33:52,550 --> 01:33:51,189
information and put out false

2002
01:33:55,430 --> 01:33:52,560
information and you can

2003
01:33:55,830 --> 01:33:55,440
you you can check that against what we

2004
01:33:59,350 --> 01:33:55,840
know

2005
01:34:04,709 --> 01:33:59,360
for a fact i mean you can go against

2006
01:34:08,550 --> 01:34:04,719
um uh

2007
01:34:12,629 --> 01:34:08,560
uh oh let's but let's talk about one uh

2008
01:34:15,270 --> 01:34:12,639
supposedly uh uh

2009
01:34:16,830 --> 01:34:15,280
if you know about the uh battle of los

2010
01:34:20,470 --> 01:34:16,840
angeles

2011
01:34:23,830 --> 01:34:20,480
yeah yeah okay 1848

2012
01:34:27,189 --> 01:34:23,840
yeah yeah so the uh

2013
01:34:30,229 --> 01:34:27,199
uh the woods had a uh

2014
01:34:32,950 --> 01:34:30,239
had a document that they

2015
01:34:34,149 --> 01:34:32,960
tried to insinuate into the documents

2016
01:34:38,149 --> 01:34:34,159
from the battle of los

2017
01:34:39,669 --> 01:34:38,159
angeles uh timothy cooper supposedly

2018
01:34:43,030 --> 01:34:39,679
supplied him this

2019
01:34:49,030 --> 01:34:47,270
it says that admiral anderson is aware

2020
01:34:50,390 --> 01:34:49,040
supposedly it says well there's some

2021
01:34:54,950 --> 01:34:50,400
kind of

2022
01:34:57,270 --> 01:34:54,960
recovery of a shot down ufo

2023
01:34:58,950 --> 01:34:57,280
and it says that admiral anderson is

2024
01:35:02,070 --> 01:34:58,960
aware of this

2025
01:35:05,830 --> 01:35:02,080
in one of the documents that cooper gave

2026
01:35:12,629 --> 01:35:09,030
problem is if you look at where

2027
01:35:15,109 --> 01:35:12,639
admiral anderson was during the battle

2028
01:35:18,870 --> 01:35:15,119
of los angeles he was nowhere he was

2029
01:35:21,910 --> 01:35:18,880
he was at one time the head of

2030
01:35:24,070 --> 01:35:21,920
office of naval intelligence but at that

2031
01:35:25,910 --> 01:35:24,080
time he was not

2032
01:35:27,189 --> 01:35:25,920
he was in charge of battleships in the

2033
01:35:30,790 --> 01:35:27,199
pacific and he was

2034
01:35:33,669 --> 01:35:30,800
he was working seriously to get

2035
01:35:34,229 --> 01:35:33,679
those battleships that were salvageable

2036
01:35:38,070 --> 01:35:34,239
back

2037
01:35:39,109 --> 01:35:38,080
online he was not working about the

2038
01:35:42,229 --> 01:35:39,119
battle of los

2039
01:35:46,310 --> 01:35:42,239
angeles now how did this mistake be

2040
01:35:49,590 --> 01:35:46,320
made the navy when there's a lot

2041
01:35:53,189 --> 01:35:49,600
of officers that change

2042
01:35:56,629 --> 01:35:53,199
position in a short time

2043
01:35:57,669 --> 01:35:56,639
because that's what happened after pearl

2044
01:36:01,189 --> 01:35:57,679
harbor

2045
01:36:02,790 --> 01:36:01,199
a number of officers became head of

2046
01:36:04,790 --> 01:36:02,800
naval intelligence

2047
01:36:07,350 --> 01:36:04,800
for maybe one or two months and then

2048
01:36:10,629 --> 01:36:07,360
they moved on

2049
01:36:12,629 --> 01:36:10,639
so anderson was gone from

2050
01:36:15,030 --> 01:36:12,639
naval intelligence during the battle of

2051
01:36:18,870 --> 01:36:15,040
los angeles

2052
01:36:22,870 --> 01:36:18,880
and the navy said in its history

2053
01:36:26,470 --> 01:36:22,880
the incumbent in 1941

2054
01:36:28,390 --> 01:36:26,480
was admiral anderson

2055
01:36:29,830 --> 01:36:28,400
the problem with that is they didn't

2056
01:36:31,750 --> 01:36:29,840
talk about all the other

2057
01:36:33,189 --> 01:36:31,760
officers that had been head of naval

2058
01:36:36,229 --> 01:36:33,199
intelligence so

2059
01:36:40,070 --> 01:36:36,239
cooper was caught

2060
01:36:43,750 --> 01:36:40,080
making up a fake document saying that

2061
01:36:49,510 --> 01:36:43,760
anderson was head of naval intelligence

2062
01:36:56,149 --> 01:36:51,430
and he was tripped up by the navy and

2063
01:37:03,830 --> 01:37:01,590
so that was that's one way to check

2064
01:37:05,350 --> 01:37:03,840
check check it check it against what you

2065
01:37:08,550 --> 01:37:05,360
know

2066
01:37:12,109 --> 01:37:08,560
now uh gordon cooper said

2067
01:37:17,030 --> 01:37:12,119
he wrote himself into uh

2068
01:37:21,270 --> 01:37:17,040
1957 filming of a ufo at uh

2069
01:37:24,310 --> 01:37:21,280
at uh

2070
01:37:26,629 --> 01:37:24,320
edwards air force base

2071
01:37:27,990 --> 01:37:26,639
well we interviewed the guys that filmed

2072
01:37:34,550 --> 01:37:28,000
the ufo they said

2073
01:37:37,910 --> 01:37:36,550
he didn't take the film and send it to

2074
01:37:40,149 --> 01:37:37,920
the pentagon

2075
01:37:41,910 --> 01:37:40,159
and it was never seen again that didn't

2076
01:37:45,189 --> 01:37:41,920
happen

2077
01:37:49,590 --> 01:37:45,199
so unfortunately gordon cooper

2078
01:37:52,870 --> 01:37:49,600
a hero astronaut

2079
01:37:56,629 --> 01:37:52,880
was the end of his life he he

2080
01:37:59,669 --> 01:37:56,639
he got into these things where

2081
01:38:02,149 --> 01:37:59,679
he would make strange claims and write

2082
01:38:06,149 --> 01:38:02,159
himself into history

2083
01:38:14,870 --> 01:38:09,189
not correct uh cooper

2084
01:38:18,950 --> 01:38:14,880
uh endorsed daniel fry a contactee

2085
01:38:21,990 --> 01:38:18,960
in his book uh leap of faith

2086
01:38:26,070 --> 01:38:22,000
so even though we

2087
01:38:29,109 --> 01:38:26,080
we should honor cooper's service

2088
01:38:31,350 --> 01:38:29,119
at the end of his life he had he

2089
01:38:33,189 --> 01:38:31,360
he had come around to with some strange

2090
01:38:37,350 --> 01:38:33,199
beliefs

2091
01:38:38,950 --> 01:38:37,360
and he's not the only one and there's

2092
01:38:41,910 --> 01:38:38,960
there's people that write themselves

2093
01:38:48,870 --> 01:38:41,920
into situations and

2094
01:38:48,880 --> 01:38:53,830
and it's it's tragic in some cases

2095
01:39:01,510 --> 01:38:57,189
general vandenberg supposedly

2096
01:39:03,830 --> 01:39:01,520
uh uh sent back the uh

2097
01:39:05,030 --> 01:39:03,840
uh estimate of the situation

2098
01:39:07,669 --> 01:39:05,040
[Music]

2099
01:39:08,550 --> 01:39:07,679
uh in 1948 no there's nothing that says

2100
01:39:14,550 --> 01:39:08,560
that

2101
01:39:16,070 --> 01:39:14,560
it's hard to find stuff on the uh

2102
01:39:20,070 --> 01:39:16,080
estimate of the situation

2103
01:39:22,390 --> 01:39:20,080
but you can't say that

2104
01:39:24,149 --> 01:39:22,400
rupell only says that it went up the

2105
01:39:26,790 --> 01:39:24,159
chain of command

2106
01:39:29,030 --> 01:39:26,800
everybody thinks a lot of people in

2107
01:39:30,310 --> 01:39:29,040
ufology think the chain of command at

2108
01:39:34,310 --> 01:39:30,320
that time

2109
01:39:37,350 --> 01:39:34,320
for wright-patterson air force base

2110
01:39:40,870 --> 01:39:37,360
was the intelligence chain

2111
01:39:44,070 --> 01:39:40,880
no it was the uh logistics

2112
01:39:47,350 --> 01:39:44,080
research and development chain

2113
01:39:49,109 --> 01:39:47,360
and since they can't find anything in

2114
01:39:50,229 --> 01:39:49,119
intelligence they're not looking in the

2115
01:39:54,229 --> 01:39:50,239
right place

2116
01:39:57,590 --> 01:39:54,239
they should look for a hints of uh

2117
01:40:01,990 --> 01:39:57,600
where things happen for the uh

2118
01:40:05,270 --> 01:40:02,000
for the uh estimated situation

2119
01:40:06,229 --> 01:40:05,280
in the uh in the logistics research and

2120
01:40:09,990 --> 01:40:06,239
development chain

2121
01:40:14,310 --> 01:40:10,000
of command also uh

2122
01:40:25,430 --> 01:40:17,990
an analysis of uh

2123
01:40:31,750 --> 01:40:29,830
conclusion of the estimated situation

2124
01:40:33,669 --> 01:40:31,760
it's not based on the estimated

2125
01:40:37,030 --> 01:40:33,679
situation it's based on the

2126
01:40:42,470 --> 01:40:37,040
project sign interim report

2127
01:40:45,510 --> 01:40:42,480
of 30 november 1948

2128
01:40:48,950 --> 01:40:45,520
which we do not have we do not have that

2129
01:40:50,550 --> 01:40:48,960
but in the navy analysis he quotes from

2130
01:40:56,470 --> 01:40:50,560
that document

2131
01:41:03,109 --> 01:41:00,149
some information about this

2132
01:41:04,390 --> 01:41:03,119
it's like a detective story now i've

2133
01:41:07,430 --> 01:41:04,400
tried to get

2134
01:41:10,629 --> 01:41:07,440
the november 30th

2135
01:41:13,830 --> 01:41:10,639
1948 sign

2136
01:41:17,030 --> 01:41:13,840
uh interim report from

2137
01:41:17,510 --> 01:41:17,040
the archives and they just blew me off

2138
01:41:20,629 --> 01:41:17,520
saying

2139
01:41:23,189 --> 01:41:20,639
well it's in the project google files no

2140
01:41:29,270 --> 01:41:26,870
the way i i go at researching is i go to

2141
01:41:32,470 --> 01:41:29,280
where the documents are

2142
01:41:35,990 --> 01:41:32,480
i turn them over page by page

2143
01:41:39,189 --> 01:41:36,000
yeah and you find things that you won't

2144
01:41:40,149 --> 01:41:39,199
you don't know what you have no idea

2145
01:41:45,030 --> 01:41:40,159
that it was there

2146
01:41:48,470 --> 01:41:45,040
one of the things i found is the cia was

2147
01:41:54,229 --> 01:41:48,480
um founded in

2148
01:41:56,310 --> 01:41:54,239
uh uh september 1947.

2149
01:41:58,550 --> 01:41:56,320
before that there was a uh what was

2150
01:42:01,350 --> 01:41:58,560
called the central intelligence group

2151
01:42:05,910 --> 01:42:01,360
within the pentagon

2152
01:42:08,470 --> 01:42:05,920
and there was the office of

2153
01:42:11,270 --> 01:42:08,480
director of central intelligence before

2154
01:42:14,470 --> 01:42:11,280
there was a cia

2155
01:42:18,229 --> 01:42:14,480
in other words vandenberg for one was

2156
01:42:23,669 --> 01:42:21,030
uh hillencother was the first head of

2157
01:42:31,669 --> 01:42:28,149
cia now going through some uh

2158
01:42:35,109 --> 01:42:31,679
going through a microfilm from uh

2159
01:42:37,590 --> 01:42:35,119
just general correspondence from

2160
01:42:39,030 --> 01:42:37,600
from the within the air force here's a

2161
01:42:42,470 --> 01:42:39,040
here's a letter from

2162
01:42:46,470 --> 01:42:42,480
hillenkotter and he's writing to

2163
01:42:51,189 --> 01:42:46,480
uh wright-patterson air force base

2164
01:42:54,229 --> 01:42:51,199
and he's saying i i do not intend to

2165
01:42:57,910 --> 01:42:54,239
have a a

2166
01:43:06,310 --> 01:43:01,430
section in the cia

2167
01:43:13,350 --> 01:43:09,990
the assets of

2168
01:43:17,270 --> 01:43:13,360
the air force at wright patterson

2169
01:43:22,870 --> 01:43:17,280
in the navy aviation assets

2170
01:43:26,149 --> 01:43:22,880
at the bureau of aviation

2171
01:43:29,750 --> 01:43:26,159
for the navy in other words he's he's

2172
01:43:34,149 --> 01:43:29,760
he's uh he's

2173
01:43:37,910 --> 01:43:34,159
more or less uh farming out this

2174
01:43:40,229 --> 01:43:37,920
uh this part of his uh intelligence

2175
01:43:42,790 --> 01:43:40,239
thing too

2176
01:43:43,590 --> 01:43:42,800
organizations that already exist now

2177
01:43:46,790 --> 01:43:43,600
that's just

2178
01:43:48,870 --> 01:43:46,800
found just by turning over pages

2179
01:43:50,790 --> 01:43:48,880
and there's no other pages around it

2180
01:43:51,669 --> 01:43:50,800
that actually address this and i'm

2181
01:43:56,709 --> 01:43:51,679
saying

2182
01:44:00,149 --> 01:43:58,229
document that shows us some

2183
01:44:04,390 --> 01:44:00,159
understanding about what's going on at

2184
01:44:08,310 --> 01:44:07,590
right wow i found a lot of documents

2185
01:44:12,390 --> 01:44:08,320
like that

2186
01:44:14,149 --> 01:44:12,400
just turning page after page over

2187
01:44:15,590 --> 01:44:14,159
it must be so great to actually see

2188
01:44:17,590 --> 01:44:15,600
these things firsthand

2189
01:44:19,109 --> 01:44:17,600
uh that would right i've done a lot of

2190
01:44:22,470 --> 01:44:19,119
research myself

2191
01:44:25,350 --> 01:44:22,480
um for i'm an appraiser and and

2192
01:44:25,750 --> 01:44:25,360
have done a lot of work in libraries and

2193
01:44:28,870 --> 01:44:25,760
things

2194
01:44:31,350 --> 01:44:28,880
you know long before the internet and uh

2195
01:44:32,950 --> 01:44:31,360
i it's still i love to actually hold

2196
01:44:33,590 --> 01:44:32,960
something like that in my hand it really

2197
01:44:37,430 --> 01:44:33,600
uh

2198
01:44:40,470 --> 01:44:37,440
there's really nothing like it right

2199
01:44:41,510 --> 01:44:40,480
and it's um it's where you least expect

2200
01:44:43,030 --> 01:44:41,520
it

2201
01:44:44,629 --> 01:44:43,040
where you think you're going to find

2202
01:44:48,310 --> 01:44:44,639
something you find a dry

2203
01:44:51,189 --> 01:44:48,320
dry hole um where you least expect that

2204
01:44:54,790 --> 01:44:51,199
you find something like that

2205
01:44:56,950 --> 01:44:54,800
um now what was your you did some

2206
01:44:58,310 --> 01:44:56,960
really looking into the twining memo

2207
01:45:02,229 --> 01:44:58,320
right

2208
01:45:05,109 --> 01:45:02,239
to have some

2209
01:45:06,870 --> 01:45:05,119
military background that's the problem

2210
01:45:10,070 --> 01:45:06,880
military correspondence is

2211
01:45:11,669 --> 01:45:10,080
uh well first of all there's a reason

2212
01:45:13,350 --> 01:45:11,679
that somebody writes a letter they don't

2213
01:45:13,990 --> 01:45:13,360
just sit down and say okay i'm going to

2214
01:45:17,910 --> 01:45:14,000
write

2215
01:45:24,149 --> 01:45:21,109
uh amc opinion

2216
01:45:25,990 --> 01:45:24,159
of flying discs you don't just sit down

2217
01:45:29,109 --> 01:45:26,000
and do that

2218
01:45:32,070 --> 01:45:29,119
you do it for some reason

2219
01:45:33,270 --> 01:45:32,080
um this is going to be a little

2220
01:45:36,870 --> 01:45:33,280
complicated and

2221
01:45:39,750 --> 01:45:36,880
and long-winded if you need to

2222
01:45:41,030 --> 01:45:39,760
save it for another time yeah we only

2223
01:45:42,790 --> 01:45:41,040
have uh

2224
01:45:44,070 --> 01:45:42,800
let's say we have about seven minutes

2225
01:45:47,990 --> 01:45:44,080
left but um

2226
01:45:49,950 --> 01:45:48,000
i know um the condom committee

2227
01:45:51,669 --> 01:45:49,960
um that's another one that was i think

2228
01:45:54,629 --> 01:45:51,679
1973.

2229
01:45:54,950 --> 01:45:54,639
uh i believe that's when that concluded

2230
01:46:02,629 --> 01:45:54,960
no

2231
01:46:06,790 --> 01:46:02,639
right right yeah

2232
01:46:08,470 --> 01:46:06,800
and i you've uh you made a reference of

2233
01:46:11,350 --> 01:46:08,480
nycap in the condom

2234
01:46:13,750 --> 01:46:11,360
committee condom committee and where how

2235
01:46:17,189 --> 01:46:13,760
is that reference

2236
01:46:19,669 --> 01:46:17,199
well one of the things that uh

2237
01:46:20,790 --> 01:46:19,679
connin was doing he was getting all a

2238
01:46:23,990 --> 01:46:20,800
lot of his

2239
01:46:27,430 --> 01:46:24,000
best stuff from nycap they were

2240
01:46:29,109 --> 01:46:27,440
um they had agreed to a cooperation

2241
01:46:30,790 --> 01:46:29,119
i mean nycap thought this was going to

2242
01:46:34,070 --> 01:46:30,800
be a real

2243
01:46:34,870 --> 01:46:34,080
honest scientific investigation so they

2244
01:46:38,870 --> 01:46:34,880
were sending

2245
01:46:43,990 --> 01:46:38,880
files to condon to look at

2246
01:46:51,270 --> 01:46:48,229
investigative network to let condon know

2247
01:46:53,430 --> 01:46:51,280
early and on about reports that they

2248
01:46:57,510 --> 01:46:53,440
were receiving

2249
01:47:00,790 --> 01:46:57,520
and they've mentioned the

2250
01:47:04,310 --> 01:47:00,800
csi files which is cf csi

2251
01:47:07,750 --> 01:47:04,320
night cap files really

2252
01:47:14,310 --> 01:47:07,760
the content well the air force

2253
01:47:18,229 --> 01:47:16,790
and nightcap cooperated by letting them

2254
01:47:20,310 --> 01:47:18,239
do that they microfilmed

2255
01:47:23,030 --> 01:47:20,320
the library of congress microfilm them

2256
01:47:25,590 --> 01:47:23,040
under an air force contract

2257
01:47:27,109 --> 01:47:25,600
that's uh another thing that most people

2258
01:47:30,550 --> 01:47:27,119
don't know about so

2259
01:47:32,870 --> 01:47:30,560
this is about four microfilms of

2260
01:47:35,189 --> 01:47:32,880
uh sightings that not are not

2261
01:47:36,870 --> 01:47:35,199
necessarily in the file so that's why

2262
01:47:39,750 --> 01:47:36,880
dave was saying well we need to get this

2263
01:47:42,310 --> 01:47:39,760
microfilm uh

2264
01:47:48,149 --> 01:47:42,320
digitized so we can add these to our

2265
01:47:54,790 --> 01:47:51,270
in the middle of the

2266
01:47:58,229 --> 01:47:54,800
counting committee uh

2267
01:48:02,070 --> 01:47:58,239
work that the

2268
01:48:05,109 --> 01:48:02,080
memo was that trick memo was found

2269
01:48:05,910 --> 01:48:05,119
where it says the trick of this is to

2270
01:48:09,990 --> 01:48:05,920
make it look

2271
01:48:12,550 --> 01:48:10,000
like uh us as a group of scientists who

2272
01:48:15,669 --> 01:48:12,560
don't really expect to find anything

2273
01:48:19,750 --> 01:48:15,679
are doing an objective work

2274
01:48:23,430 --> 01:48:19,760
um a lot of people

2275
01:48:24,470 --> 01:48:23,440
seized on that as this whole thing is a

2276
01:48:28,709 --> 01:48:24,480
trick

2277
01:48:35,990 --> 01:48:32,229
they decided to end their cooperation

2278
01:48:37,910 --> 01:48:36,000
with the condon report uh

2279
01:48:39,590 --> 01:48:37,920
even though connor wasn't doing that

2280
01:48:41,910 --> 01:48:39,600
much i mean

2281
01:48:43,430 --> 01:48:41,920
if you look at the number of reports

2282
01:48:47,350 --> 01:48:43,440
that

2283
01:48:50,950 --> 01:48:47,360
uh nycap submitted to condon

2284
01:48:51,910 --> 01:48:50,960
you know when actually when the things

2285
01:48:53,910 --> 01:48:51,920
were going on

2286
01:48:56,310 --> 01:48:53,920
just a few days before they would you

2287
01:49:00,070 --> 01:48:56,320
know submit all these reports

2288
01:49:02,550 --> 01:49:00,080
that they were getting and like uh

2289
01:49:03,430 --> 01:49:02,560
dick hall said at the i think it was the

2290
01:49:06,950 --> 01:49:03,440
76

2291
01:49:07,990 --> 01:49:06,960
mufon meeting he had a he had sketches

2292
01:49:11,350 --> 01:49:08,000
of

2293
01:49:12,470 --> 01:49:11,360
uh ufo reports that they had sent to

2294
01:49:14,310 --> 01:49:12,480
condon they

2295
01:49:16,550 --> 01:49:14,320
they had sent the case to continent but

2296
01:49:18,709 --> 01:49:16,560
he had sketches of reports and these

2297
01:49:22,870 --> 01:49:18,719
look all like craft

2298
01:49:26,629 --> 01:49:22,880
sightings they don't look like you know

2299
01:49:28,390 --> 01:49:26,639
night lights or something seen at a far

2300
01:49:29,669 --> 01:49:28,400
distance they're all things that are

2301
01:49:31,750 --> 01:49:29,679
close

2302
01:49:33,350 --> 01:49:31,760
and he says here's uh here's the picture

2303
01:49:37,189 --> 01:49:33,360
here's the drawings from the

2304
01:49:39,589 --> 01:49:37,199
from these uh witnesses and

2305
01:49:41,109 --> 01:49:39,599
most of them conan didn't even look at

2306
01:49:44,950 --> 01:49:41,119
the county committee didn't even

2307
01:49:46,950 --> 01:49:44,960
look at yeah and they're just uh

2308
01:49:48,070 --> 01:49:46,960
fascinating to look at the sketches and

2309
01:49:51,510 --> 01:49:48,080
say

2310
01:49:54,550 --> 01:49:51,520
jeez what what's the story behind this

2311
01:49:56,470 --> 01:49:54,560
and of course the stories at the in the

2312
01:49:59,350 --> 01:49:56,480
kufos files because they got the

2313
01:50:02,550 --> 01:49:59,360
nightcap files

2314
01:50:05,189 --> 01:50:02,560
uh so wow so

2315
01:50:05,910 --> 01:50:05,199
you know just from what i'm gathering is

2316
01:50:08,390 --> 01:50:05,920
you know there's

2317
01:50:10,149 --> 01:50:08,400
there's more than one side to a lot of

2318
01:50:12,790 --> 01:50:10,159
what's going on here that

2319
01:50:13,350 --> 01:50:12,800
is just not deeply researched by your

2320
01:50:16,629 --> 01:50:13,360
average

2321
01:50:18,709 --> 01:50:16,639
person looking into the topic right

2322
01:50:20,629 --> 01:50:18,719
right the people that i respect are the

2323
01:50:23,990 --> 01:50:20,639
ones that go out and

2324
01:50:26,310 --> 01:50:24,000
try to figure out what happened

2325
01:50:30,310 --> 01:50:26,320
in the field and actually go to where

2326
01:50:32,950 --> 01:50:30,320
the guy saw the sighting and

2327
01:50:34,790 --> 01:50:32,960
get a get a halfway decent interview and

2328
01:50:37,830 --> 01:50:34,800
get him to fill out a report

2329
01:50:41,430 --> 01:50:37,840
for him these are real

2330
01:50:44,070 --> 01:50:41,440
important actions and it may be drudge

2331
01:50:46,149 --> 01:50:44,080
work for a lot of people but

2332
01:50:47,910 --> 01:50:46,159
you have you have to admire the the

2333
01:50:50,830 --> 01:50:47,920
investigators uh the uh

2334
01:50:51,990 --> 01:50:50,840
on the scene investigators that go out

2335
01:50:54,149 --> 01:50:52,000
there

2336
01:50:55,270 --> 01:50:54,159
um oh yeah they're volunteering their

2337
01:50:58,470 --> 01:50:55,280
time and

2338
01:51:01,430 --> 01:50:58,480
yeah and you know trying to look into

2339
01:51:03,030 --> 01:51:01,440
a plausible explanation explanation for

2340
01:51:04,470 --> 01:51:03,040
what happened

2341
01:51:07,030 --> 01:51:04,480
yeah you know they would have landed

2342
01:51:11,430 --> 01:51:07,040
more years about what happened

2343
01:51:14,229 --> 01:51:11,440
but uh after a while after you read some

2344
01:51:17,350 --> 01:51:14,239
of the investigations by these people

2345
01:51:19,830 --> 01:51:17,360
you can you can get a uh

2346
01:51:21,430 --> 01:51:19,840
a feeling for uh actually how they

2347
01:51:23,430 --> 01:51:21,440
approach the subject

2348
01:51:26,070 --> 01:51:23,440
even if they might have funny ideas

2349
01:51:29,109 --> 01:51:26,080
about the subject

2350
01:51:30,709 --> 01:51:29,119
does that bias their investigation and

2351
01:51:32,229 --> 01:51:30,719
that's one of the things i'm interested

2352
01:51:34,070 --> 01:51:32,239
in is

2353
01:51:36,709 --> 01:51:34,080
and i i find a lot of people have

2354
01:51:40,310 --> 01:51:36,719
screwed screwball ideas

2355
01:51:42,950 --> 01:51:40,320
actually do good investigation

2356
01:51:44,950 --> 01:51:42,960
about that i i hate to say it jan but we

2357
01:51:47,589 --> 01:51:44,960
are at the end of our show

2358
01:51:47,990 --> 01:51:47,599
and uh i want to thank you so much and i

2359
01:51:51,709 --> 01:51:48,000
encourage

2360
01:51:54,950 --> 01:51:51,719
everyone to go on check out project

2361
01:51:57,430 --> 01:51:54,960
1947 and uh dot com

2362
01:51:58,790 --> 01:51:57,440
uh so check that out jan thank you so

2363
01:52:00,229 --> 01:51:58,800
much it's been a real honor to have you

2364
01:52:05,669 --> 01:52:00,239
on the show

2365
01:52:08,950 --> 01:52:07,510
all right everyone uh thanks so much for

2366
01:52:11,030 --> 01:52:08,960
listening tonight so

2367
01:52:12,070 --> 01:52:11,040
next week we have james fox he's going

2368
01:52:15,189 --> 01:52:12,080
to be on

2369
01:52:18,149 --> 01:52:15,199
for the first 55 minutes and then

2370
01:52:19,990 --> 01:52:18,159
our blogger and audioblogger the one and

2371
01:52:21,669 --> 01:52:20,000
only charles lear will be covering the

2372
01:52:23,669 --> 01:52:21,679
rest of the show

2373
01:52:30,020 --> 01:52:23,679
thanks so much for watching and remember

2374
01:52:44,600 --> 01:52:30,030
to keep your eyes to the sky